Bulova Accutron 218 -- oil and grease substitutions

[ManSkirtBrew]

The service manual calls for only 2 lubricants:

• Moebius OL219 - Synta Visco Lube
• Moebius OL207 - Special Lubricant with Molybdenum Disulfide

I understand that they are now Moebius 9020 and 8201, respectively. Unfortunately, I don't have either in stock.

I do have 9010, 9104 (HP1300). For greases I have 9501, 9415, and Kluber P125.

The manual recommends OL219 on the train jewels where I'd normally use 9010, and looking at Moebius' lubrication chart that seems reasonable. In Mark's chronograph course he also notes that 9010 can be an acceptable substitute for 9020.

The grease is a little more tricky. The manual uses it in some places I'd normally use 9104, like the minute wheel post, but also where I'd use 9501 like the stem and sliding clutch.

I thought the Kluber P125 might be a reasonable substitute for the 8201, but I think the Kluber is thicker.

 

Basically I'm wondering if there's a compelling reason to buy the lubricants specifically called for, or if I can use what I have here. I don't mind spending the money if I really should, but if I can get away with what I've got and not have to wait with parts on my bench, I'd love that too.

 

 

Edited May 30, 2023 by ManSkirtBrew
Turns out 9415 is a grease, despite the chart saying it can sub for 9020

[JohnR725]

8 hours ago, ManSkirtBrew said:

minute wheel post

I assume when you're doing that you using epilam?

Then when I'm servicing this watch I have 9020 and 9504 from the grease that is all I'm using. Then yes I use the grease on the minute we'll post.

But seeing as how you have neither of those you can use the 9501 for everywhere that grease  is recommended including the minute we'll post of course.

8 hours ago, ManSkirtBrew said:

I thought the Kluber P125 might be a reasonable substitute for the 8201, but I think the Kluber is thicker

then P125 is a breaking grease which is definitely not a reasonable substitute for 8201. Then even if you had 8201 there was issues with that I wouldn't use it anyway. Especially on this watch. Occasionally the center wheel assembly on the post the lubrication would become undesirable locking get in place by the watch would continue to drive the gear and soon they would become very very  basically no friction at all. It's kind of a classic problem with this watch the secondhand will turn the hands will not. So that really wasn't the best lubrication in the first place.

8 hours ago, ManSkirtBrew said:

Basically I'm wondering if there's a compelling reason to buy the lubricants specifically called for, or if I can use what I have here. I don't mind spending the money if I really should, but if I can get away with what I've got and not have to wait with parts on my bench, I'd love that too.

unfortunately I'm biased on this one. I just thought I'd mention that up front I don't use 9010 at all for variety of reasons. My light oil a choices 9020. My recommendation if you want this watch to run a long time would be to get the 9020. But as I said I'm biased in this.

[ManSkirtBrew]

8 hours ago, JohnR725 said:

you can use the 9501 for everywhere that grease  is recommended including the minute we'll post of course.

Appreciate your perspective, @JohnR725. I decided to do exactly this, along with 9010 for the jewels. I bought this movement to be practice for another that I actually care about, so I will put 9020 in my cart next time I make a purchase.

I do notice the pivots are larger than I'm used to for train wheels in a fully mechanical watch, so it makes sense in my head to use a slightly heavier oil.

8 hours ago, JohnR725 said:

I assume when you're doing that you using epilam?

I am not. All of my learning so far recommends D5/HP1300/9104 for the minute and intermediate wheel posts, including Mark's WatchFix courses, so that's what I've always used when I don't have an oiling chart.

I do use epilam on cap jewels, pallet forks, and escape wheels. And on the reverser wheels of the one Rolex I'll probably ever service ;)

[JohnR725]

2 hours ago, ManSkirtBrew said:

I do notice the pivots are larger than I'm used to for train wheels in a fully mechanical watch, so it makes sense in my head to use a slightly heavier oil.

 

I'm not actually sure that's why the using the heavier oil I think there's another reason. The problem with using 9010 is typically every place it's used epilam is also used. Including on the balance staff.

2 hours ago, ManSkirtBrew said:

I am not. All of my learning so far recommends D5/HP1300/9104 for the minute and intermediate wheel posts, including Mark's WatchFix courses, so that's what I've always used when I don't have an oiling chart.

I do use epilam on cap jewels, pallet forks, and escape wheels. And on the reverser wheels of the one Rolex I'll probably ever service

I thought I would attach a PDF that talks about lubrication and cleaning. It's a bit dated but it brings up an interesting problem of the use of epilam. Also it has the amusement of which lubrication is being used on the keyless and doesn't that seem like that's a bit thin?

One of the problems with lubrication is a lot of the manufacturers have other information which typically you might never see. Like the PDF I scanned this when I acquired some Omega documentation a while back. Use a epilam becomes interesting because typically at least until modern times it's not mentioned anywhere other than on the escapement. Now if you look at the modern Swiss companies though typically say if you replace the component use epilam. Basically the entire watches epilam except they hairspring and balance wheel is the current modern recommendation. Except what does it say in the PDF attached? So in other words it's not a modern practice epilam's been used for a very long time it just isn't mentioned the technical documentation sometimes technical documentation barely even talks about lubrication because of course that's a separate document that you may or may not ever see.

 

1441104110_OilingOmegawatches1957.PDF

[LittleWatchShop]

I am about to start the journey into Accutron service and came across this thread after reading the Accutron service manual.

I will bite the bullet on 9020, but it seems to me that a molybdenum disulfide grease is a reasonable substitute for OL 207 (8201) because when you read the marketing data on 8201, it is recommended as a breaking grease (MDS):

"This special purpose Moebius grease contains Molybdenum disulphide to enhance it lubricity and resistance to pressure. It is designed for use on automatic mainsprings, to ensure proper functioning of the bridle. It is also recommended for use on the Bulova Accutron watch movements. 

Moebius 8201 natural watch grease lubricant
Contains Molybdenum disulphide
Black color
Drop point: 32°C
Viscosity: solid at 40°C
Viscosity: 22 cST at 60°C
Viscosity: 13 cST at 80°C"

[JohnR725]

7 hours ago, LittleWatchShop said:

8201

We seem to be reading the wrong specification celeb a copy and paste because it's morning here in my brain might not be functioning quite correctly. So what I'm reading is 8200 is the lubrication for mainsprings 8201 is still the same thing with the addition of the Molybdenum disulphide. So basically I'm reading it as a high-pressure version of 8200 I'm not seeing the breaking grease part even though all greases do have breaking properties this grease is meant to be really slippery without the breaking properties being its prominent feature.

But it probably is the original lubrication they were using and auto to 18 it did not end up a good choice because whatever they were using on the center wheel cannon pinion assembly would dry up lock the pinion part in place allow the wheel to rotates until there was no longer in a friction at all. That is a classic to 18 problem of secondhand is rotating the rest of the wheels are not because he gets kind of a dry rust so I would suggest trying an alternative lubrication just to be safe