Elgin Grade 428 not in Bestfit or Marshall

[LittleWatchShop]

What am I doing wrong.  I cannot find Elgin numbers this low in the Bestfit nor Marshall handbooks.

@JohnR725I know you have the answer.

[JohnR725]

3 hours ago, LittleWatchShop said:

What am I doing wrong.  I cannot find Elgin numbers this low in the Bestfit nor Marshall handbooks.

@JohnR725I know you have the answer.

you do know that you being extremely lucky in that if someone makes a reference to me the chance to me ever seeing it is practically nonexistent. I don't quite seem to spend as much time here as I used do so I miss a lot of things but since I was just here answering something

typically I never think of Elgin watches at least pocket watches in either of those books although I do note the back of the bestfit book does have a Hamilton Elgin section nice for cross-referencing Hamilton numbers I typically never think of them for pocket watches

so usually something like this I would take the serial number of which you conveniently gave us go to the pocket watch database on the left-hand side it says parts click on that you get a parts list what were you looking for?

Then of course the other thing I do is I usually look in because I have is a PDF the 1915 Elgin parts Log as it's a picture catalog it's much nicer than the later one.

then it was things like a balance staff that I'll go look at another book after you get the number to see just how many variations exist because that isn't always visible in the parts book of how many variations it might tell you their variations exist they just don't tell you how many variations.

[grsnovi]

Elgin grade 428 part numbers for the balance as follows:

p/n 2552 - balance

p/n 4175 - balance complete

p/n 2653 - roller without pin

p/n 2699 - roller w/pin

p/n 4136 - balance staff

In 1949 Elgin charged $0.50 for a single balance staff.

[JohnR725]

3 minutes ago, grsnovi said:

p/n 4136 - balance staff

not as bad as usual for Elgin at least you only have two pivots sizes and don't have a bunch of other variations for size for the same part number like the older ones

[LittleWatchShop]

14 minutes ago, grsnovi said:

p/n 4175 - balance complete

This matches.  The database does not go deeper than the balance complete as best I can tell.  But I suspect the other numbers are accurate by correlation.

[grsnovi]

There was a note suggesting there was more information in the "special section" which I'll be dipped if I can find. I suspect that the pivot variation that John shows would be what we'd find if I could find the "Special Information Section".

These guys will sell you one for $15...

https://www.jewelerssupplies.com/shop-bin/sc/productsearch.cgi?storeid=*14884f2cab1d40e71cd4468d

 

Edited July 3, 2022 by grsnovi
added link to cas-ker

[JohnR725]

1 minute ago, grsnovi said:

here was a note suggesting there was more information in the "special section" which I'll be dipped if I can find...

yes the problem with finding the fine print in that Will look then of course there's also this website

http://www.elginwatchparts.com/

you'll notice that when you enter in your model number it does have the notes on the bottom but it refers you to sections for some of it which then you don't half but it does give you a clue is going to be variations

[LittleWatchShop]

20 minutes ago, JohnR725 said:

not as bad as usual for Elgin at least you only have two pivots sizes and don't have a bunch of other variations for size for the same part number like the older ones

Where did this come from?  Do these numbers correspond to all of the other dimensions of the staff?  Is there a diagram to correlate with?  Like this?

Edited July 3, 2022 by LittleWatchShop

[grsnovi]

[JohnR725]

2 hours ago, LittleWatchShop said:

Where did this come from?  Do these numbers correspond to all of the other dimensions of the staff?  Is there a diagram to correlate with?  Like this?

I had acquired the book by going to a regional is also a companion one for jewels. Somebody finally made it into a PDF I've seen the staff one on eBay. Then yes the numbers correspond to the other numbers. There is no picture at the very top of each page they just list whatever the dimensions are usually works best when I'm stepping things out if I get the top of the page that your staff was at the bottom of the page.

then I snipped out an image of the other books you can see what it is it's interesting because it went through and measured a huge assortment and that lets you look up staffs by size. With at the bonus at the end of the book they have all the various technical literature of various American watch companies. Plus if you're lucky a few of the staffs have all the dimensions more than you normally see in the list were somebody went to into the detail like you're going to make a balance staff but not all the staffs are listed in the back just some of them

but typically the first book one I got your numbers from whenever I need a staff that's where I go unlock because then you can see all the verifications because most people don't realize that one number could refer while is one Elgin actually refers to 12 different staffs I think there's three or four groupings of differences for variations and all the rest the differences are the pivots size there's very few staffs that you only have one staff with no variation but they do exist there just in the minority

then of course what makes this one interesting of the Swartchild's American Balance I think almost no one knows it hacks even exist it have to have literature from the material house and I was at a regional meeting just picked up some stuff is as always on the hunt for literature. I'm guessing somebody on eBay just scanned it and probably is not worrying about the fact that assesses copyrighted on the bottom of the page but it does become an interesting book to have

[LittleWatchShop]

When all else fails consult your dad!  So I dug through my dad's books and found this.  It comports with what Gary and John have given.