Oiling?

[Shane47]

Hello just introduced my self in introductions. I’m Shane I’m a newbie!  I just got finished dismantling a eta7750 movement and I was looking through oiling diagrams and my Callander plate looks nothing lie any of pictures.  I know there are a whole bunch of variations so tried to do research and after an hour or so  found the plate for sale and found out it’s a 7750 variation 3 w/moon phase #2551/1 and they say it’s rare.  The question I have is how do I oil it?  It has 3 fixed gears, that are pressed in.  Photos are attached.

[JohnR725]

10 hours ago, Shane47 said:

7750

I wasn't aware that the 7750 had a moon phase?

You might want to look at this this is a 7751 maybe it's similar to yours

 

 

[Shane47]

I did see that write up after.  I posted the question.  It’s not like mine at all. I thought it was weird that it says moonphase and I have no moon phase at all.  the only thing I could find about was from the post below. That why I called it that. The only way I found that was to a Google picture search.  Thank you anyways for reaching out!
 

https://welwynwatchparts.co.uk/products/valjoux-eta-7750-calendar-plate-variation-3-w-moonphase-2551-1

[JohnR725]

19 hours ago, Shane47 said:

found out it’s a 7750 variation 3 w/moon phase #2551/1 and they say it’s rare.

There may be a minor clerical mistake being made here? Out of curiosity on the main plate of your watch what number does it have? Is it actually say seven 750 or does it say something else or was it made by somebody else?

Often times all the 7750s get lumped together as one watch sort of exactly like I just did in this sentence. To understand this I'm attaching an image somebody might consider all of those 7750s because they'll look similar but only one of them has a moonphase.

20 hours ago, Shane47 said:

#2551/1

Then minor little problem with that part number I'm attaching some images out of one of the tech sheets. The problem with part numbers are there not unique to a watch there a common part number that refers to a specific part found in a watch. So for instance here are four of them all with same part number but all uniquely different. See if any match your part if they do everything at the technical guide for whatever that is.

[Shane47]

The more research I do I think it’s a  7750 clone.  It came off a Noob Daytona,  I got back in 2013.  I didn’t know if that  is frowned upon on here.  It’s definitely is some type of 7750 because I watched a video on dismantling it.  The only differences was that plate and  two gears that were pressed on each end of a shaft ( sorry I haven’t learned all the names of gears yet).  Also my dial is nothing like  like any of those at top except the 7753 but I don’t have a date window at 5.  Mine is chrono with  Hours at 9 ,  aseconds at 6   and Day number at 3.   
If you need pics I can send it’s fully taken apart.  I’m waiting for the main spring and all the oils and grease  it needs. Should be here Tuesday.

the  #2551/1 came off a UK site that was selling a plate like the one I have.  I put a link in my previous post.  It’s the only thing on Google that was the exact plate.

[JohnR725]

I had a suspicion it was a clone because? I had a suspicion it was a clone. If you look at the finish your plates doesn't look the best. Even the plain ordinary Swiss version the OEM version still has much nicer quality plates and yours. Then the problem clone to watches are they may or may not be exactly cloned usually they're not. So usually they've cut steps they could definitely be an issue.

Just in case it's close I'm attaching the service guide for the 7750

ct_7750_esi_465853_16 2019.pdf

[Shane47]

Thank you johnr725. So what would you do to the three fixed gears? A dab of 9010 or should it be hp1300 or just leave it with nothing. I’ve looked under the gears, the best I can. There seems to be no wear

[Shane47]

One more thing.  I should be getting started on Tuesday or Wednesday or when ever usps delivers all the oil and fun things I had to buy!  are there any tricky parts during the install?  Also if I have miss placed a screw, where do you get them.  I haven’t, I was real careful putting each thing I took off in a certain tray.  But I’ve worked on enough cars and things to know bolts disappear.  

[JohnR725]

On 4/15/2022 at 5:10 PM, Shane47 said:

two gears that were pressed on each

 

On 4/16/2022 at 8:16 PM, Shane47 said:

A dab of 9010 or should it be hp1300 or just leave it with nothing

The problem with clone watches are they don't quite follow the narrative of how the original was done which leaves us with mysteries. If you're lucky parts of whatever they clone will fit sometimes they won't the screws hopefully will otherwise I'll have to find a screw assortment to try to find something that fits.

The lubrication becomes a bit tricky which means all of the answers you have are correct or none of them are correct and?

Normally with the eta watches if they're using the HP oils the using epilam. It's a substance you put on things to keep the oil from spreading so usually put that on the keep the oil in place. This is why they use insanely thin oils on the keyless works word be preferred to use grease. Here pressed on chronograph wheels shouldn't have grease and you should probably use the HP oil but I would go super sparing on it because without the epilam it tends to spread. Otherwise you could try the 9010 but I think that might be too thin. The best thing to do is look at one of the tech sheets C whatever they recommend and if it's HP oil just go super super minimalistic and we'll go from there and see what happens.

[Shane47]

On 4/19/2022 at 11:08 PM, JohnR725 said:

 

The problem with clone watches are they don't quite follow the narrative of how the original was done which leaves us with mysteries. If you're lucky parts of whatever they clone will fit sometimes they won't the screws hopefully will otherwise I'll have to find a screw assortment to try to find something that fits.

The lubrication becomes a bit tricky which means all of the answers you have are correct or none of them are correct and?

Normally with the eta watches if they're using the HP oils the using epilam. It's a substance you put on things to keep the oil from spreading so usually put that on the keep the oil in place. This is why they use insanely thin oils on the keyless works word be preferred to use grease. Here pressed on chronograph wheels shouldn't have grease and you should probably use the HP oil but I would go super sparing on it because without the epilam it tends to spread. Otherwise you could try the 9010 but I think that might be too thin. The best thing to do is look at one of the tech sheets C whatever they recommend and if it's HP oil just go super super minimalistic and we'll go from there and see what happens.

I do have some epilate (moebius 8981 FICO drop). But them being fixed, I can’t get up under the gears.  Unless I brush it on the plate and spin the gear.  So where should I oil? put a tiny amount on the shaft or on the plate and let the gear spread it around.  I’ll probably use the HP1300.  Thanks again. I just installed all keyless and put a new main spring in and installed all train gears.  Right having problems with incabloc shock,  I’ve lost 2.   I’ve tried installing incabloc before putting in cap jewel but it keeps falling out.  So tried to in stall with jewel and the solid end of shock will move diagonally and pop out when installing the two split ends.  I’ve tried holding the solid end down with my pip wood , but it still wants to move diagonally.  Any hints?

[JohnR725]

1 hour ago, Shane47 said:

So where should I oil? put a tiny amount on the shaft or on the plate and let the gear spread it around.  I’ll probably use the HP1300.

You're stuck with looking at the original document. Looking at if they oiled that wheel or not. I would oil from the top because if you oil underneath there is the possibility of the wheel basically gluing itself to the plate. This sometimes happens with minute wheels large flat surfaces and oil basically end up with a heck of a lot of drag because they glue themselves together. So you just want the oil on the shaft bearing surfaces if that's where they oiled in the original watch. Otherwise maybe just go with out as that might be a better way to go expensive at something that doesn't have a lot of work going through it

[Shane47]

On 4/23/2022 at 3:19 PM, JohnR725 said:

You're stuck with looking at the original document. Looking at if they oiled that wheel or not. I would oil from the top because if you oil underneath there is the possibility of the wheel basically gluing itself to the plate. This sometimes happens with minute wheels large flat surfaces and oil basically end up with a heck of a lot of drag because they glue themselves together. So you just want the oil on the shaft bearing surfaces if that's where they oiled in the original watch. Otherwise maybe just go with out as that might be a better way to go expensive at something that doesn't have a lot of work going through it

I have finally found a video but it a in Japanese.  And the translation is horrible., but it shows the odd plate I have. 

i had a screw snap on me.  what’s the best way to get it out?   it’s for the  crown wheel core.  it snapped out in the plate.

 

 

[Paul80]

Hi.

For getting screw out that have just snapped and are not rusted in I have so for been lucky that the bit left in the plate just simply unscrews just using the end of a suitabley sized screwdriver to tease it out.

Obviously that rarely works if the crew snapped because the threads were rusted solid.

There is a Bergeon tool that grips the screw between two pins and the plate is then rotated to unscrew the broken bit.

For a Bergeon tool it's not overly expensive and it's available from the Chinese factory for a lot less, I have seen it for around £35 and there is a cheaper Chinese version that's about £15 but that used miniature end mills to grip the screw which may be a little too brittle to function reliably. 

.

 

 

[JohnR725]

46 minutes ago, Shane47 said:

it’s for the  crown wheel core.

Was there one screw here or two screws? Sometimes the crown wheel is a left-handed screw and it's not always marked as left-handed. But looking at the walk-through that I found it looks like there's supposed to be two screws

https://www.watchrepairtalk.com/topic/2309-eta-7750-service-walkthrough-the-industry-standard-chronograph/

Then it worst-case if the screw won't come out providing we can get all of the steel parts off the plate that it's in we can dissolve it out which is what I've usually done for Broken screws that don't want to come out. Sometimes when they break you can still unscrew them if you're careful sometimes there out far enough you grapple with the pin vice other times dissolving was the way to work for me but you can't have any other steel Pieces on that part or They will disappear also

 

 

 

 

 

[Shane47]

7 hours ago, JohnR725 said:

Was there one screw here or two screws? Sometimes the crown wheel is a left-handed screw and it's not always marked as left-handed. But looking at the walk-through that I found it looks like there's supposed to be two screws

https://www.watchrepairtalk.com/topic/2309-eta-7750-service-walkthrough-the-industry-standard-chronograph/

Then it worst-case if the screw won't come out providing we can get all of the steel parts off the plate that it's in we can dissolve it out which is what I've usually done for Broken screws that don't want to come out. Sometimes when they break you can still unscrew them if you're careful sometimes there out far enough you grapple with the pin vice other times dissolving was the way to work for me but you can't have any other steel Pieces on that part or They will disappear also

 

 

 

 

 

Well me not following the patience rule.  I have to buy a  barrel and train bridge.  I wish there was a place down the street that sells watch parts .  Instead I have to wait a week for eBay!

I still haven’t figured out how it broke.  It wasn’t tightened down !  The only thing I could figure  was , I installed th e ratchet wheel first then when fitting the  crown wheel . I didn’t tighten the screws to make sure everything lined up and I hear pop.  Next time I’ll follow the diagram order must better.  But can’t get mad I’m having fun!

[JohnR725]

2 hours ago, Shane47 said:

Well me not following the patience rule.

Ideally when you're starting watch repair it would start with something that's less complicated. The classic thing that we recommend does the Chinese clone of the 6497. A larger basic watch that you can practice on and it's running because you're purchasing a brand-new. This way in the midst of taken apart and putting it back together if it quits running it makes it easy to point the finger at whose problem is that. Versus starting with a watch that wasn't running thinking you can fix it and then deciding it still can't be fixed because you didn't have the skills in the first place versus mysterious breakages along the way.

Then there's the other problem of if this is its original Swiss watch is always the likelihood that things might not actually interchange. Plus the clone watches tend to just have problems. Because whoever cloned it usually cloned it at a much lower cost and they didn't really mean for somebody to be repairing it down the road you can end up with issues

2 hours ago, Shane47 said:

I wish there was a place down the street that sells watch parts

Out of curiosity what country do you live in?

[Shane47]

On 4/26/2022 at 3:17 AM, JohnR725 said:

Ideally when you're starting watch repair it would start with something that's less complicated. The classic thing that we recommend does the Chinese clone of the 6497. A larger basic watch that you can practice on and it's running because you're purchasing a brand-new. This way in the midst of taken apart and putting it back together if it quits running it makes it easy to point the finger at whose problem is that. Versus starting with a watch that wasn't running thinking you can fix it and then deciding it still can't be fixed because you didn't have the skills in the first place versus mysterious breakages along the way.

Then there's the other problem of if this is its original Swiss watch is always the likelihood that things might not actually interchange. Plus the clone watches tend to just have problems. Because whoever cloned it usually cloned it at a much lower cost and they didn't really mean for somebody to be repairing it down the road you can end up with issues

Out of curiosity what country do you live in?

I Live the US, Georgia to be exact.  I did take apart and put back together a seagull ST3600. I didn't get into the Balance or any jewels.  I had this watch  (7750) and realized it hasn't been serviced in 13yrs.  So I decided to take on the challenge.  The worst that can happen is i have to buy a new movement.  The only problems I've had were the screw that snapped and the incabloc springs.  I just received the barrel and train plate yesterday and installed with no problem, about to install balance spring after i do some research on it.  i was sent wrong incabloc springs so waiting on the right ones.  its been challenging to keep the screws on the work bench.  but have learned rodico does everything. it cleans, it picks stuff up, and even it can be used as a holder.