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Elgin 345 Broken Stem?

ColinZ80

By ColinZ80
in Watch Repairs Help & Advice

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ColinZ80 New Member

ColinZ80

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This is probably very obvious but I'd like to be certain. Attached is a picture of the two pieces of the stem I pulled out of my Elgin 345 pocketwatch. This stem is broken right? I can't seem to find a single picture of an Elgin 12s pocketwatch stem online. Images of other stems don't look nearly as long as mine would be if it was in one piece. Nevertheless the watch won't set or wind so something is wrong.  

I'm still getting familiar with the keyless works on different timepieces. I wasn't sure if somehow these two pieces function independently. Thanks.

stem.jpg

Hondadoug New Member

Hondadoug

Posted
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Yes, broken. I have not run across a full length stem in an elgin myself, but that is simple compared to the 2 piece stems most cases require. Would love to see the case for your watch. Try Otto Frei for a stem.

ColinZ80 New Member

ColinZ80

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13 hours ago, Hondadoug said:

Yes, broken. I have not run across a full length stem in an elgin myself, but that is simple compared to the 2 piece stems most cases require. Would love to see the case for your watch. Try Otto Frei for a stem.

Thanks for your insight. It's been difficult to find a stem for an elgin this long. I've attached a couple pictures of the watch.

elginface.jpg

elgincaseback.jpg

MrRoundel Super WRT Addict

MrRoundel

Posted
Posted

Has the stem worked for winding and setting since you've owned the watch? I ask because the combined length of that stem seems excessive to me. It looks as if someone dropped the piece of another stem in there, following it with the original upper piece, in order to extend it. Sometimes a small piece of the square stem can get you working, but I've never seen something that long being used. It appears to me as if something isn't right about that stem. And I don't mean that it's merely broken. Good luck.

ColinZ80 New Member

ColinZ80

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29 minutes ago, MrRoundel said:

Has the stem worked for winding and setting since you've owned the watch?

I considered that possibility. When I first got the watch it wound and set fine. It's the only pocketwatch I've had so I don't have a feel for these things but I thought the mechanism felt a bit loose. I just took it out of the case for the first time and figured the stem had already broken yet was being held together somewhat. Or perhaps I broke it by angling the movement out of the case. 

If it were in one piece. The end of the stem would seem to rest properly in the groove cut out in the movement. Excuse my lack of proper vocabulary. 

MrRoundel Super WRT Addict

MrRoundel

Posted
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I suppose it's possible that it's correct. Only you can know how much you forced the angle of the movement to remove it. Did you at least pull out to the setting position before you tried to remove it from the case? Did you look under high magnification to see how the broken ends match up?  The upper end of the bottom piece looks purposely rounded off to me. No match means it was like that when you got it, right? Unless you rounded it off. 

Have you tried putting the bottom piece into the movement before attempting to tilt the movement in, and adding the top piece and crown after? You may have to remove the sleeve from the pendant to do it properly. I'm just thinking out loud. Hopefully someone else can add to the theories. Cheers.

Hondadoug New Member

Hondadoug

Posted
Posted

Can you post an extreme close up of the stem parts? 
all my Elgins have 2 piece stems, and they have been fitted to each pair.

Even trying to exchange cases and movements can cause problems. It seems like the stem is matched and must stay with the case. I find the adjustments to be quite sensitive. Is this normal?

ColinZ80 New Member

ColinZ80

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23 minutes ago, Hondadoug said:

Can you post an extreme close up of the stem parts? 

It is quite apparent to me now that these two pieces are not from the same stem. MrRoundel was correct in seeing the beveled edge on the end piece. If the fit of the stem is truly unique to the original then I suppose I'll have to figure out how these two pieces were intended to work when they were put in there

closestem.jpg

mechanism.jpg

Hondadoug New Member

Hondadoug

Posted
Posted

That matches what I have encountered. The lower piece is part of the watch and the upper is part of the case. The length and setting of the upper is critical to function . The stem is adjusted by a collet in the case, with the crown removed from the stem. There is a special tool for this purpose. I don’t yet have one. The last one I did took at least 5 try's to get working. I have another that is close but not correct. That movement is not original to the case. 

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