What lubricating products should I be using for a watchmakers lathe?

[GregG]

I ended up purchasing a watchmakers lathe, and I'm in the process of dressing all the parts.  Disassembling it, cleaning off the gunky oil, lubricating it anew, and reassembling it.  I've cleaned off all the parts except for the headstock (will get back to that in just a bit).  Looking around online as to how I should lubricate it comes up with a few differing opinions.  Sewing machine oil vs synthetic motor oil.  Opinions seem split on whether or not to use it.  Some say it's fine to use, others say to avoid it like the plague.  Does anyone have empirical evidence or experience that one is better to use than the other?

Second, where to apply lubrication?  Touching things that have oil on them make me want to crawl out of my skin, so I've lubricated the bed and all seldom-moving parts with dry PTFE lube.  I figure slowly moving the cross slide a few millimeters every once in a while doesn't constitute a high-motion part that requires oil.  Does that sound like a reasonable approach?

The headstock will get a proper application of oil.  I haven't disassembled it yet.  I still need to figure out which parts I need to remove, and which direction the spindle comes out from.  And then we go back to the question, sewing machine oil or synthetic motor oil?  And if it's synthetic oil, what type?  I see people using various viscosities, and some use specific spindle oil.

Edited March 13 by GregG

[tomh207]

I suppose it should be easier than a conversation around watch lubricating.

like you I have seen all sorts of recommendations from as you say sewing machine to high performance motor oil. What does however make more sense to me is the folks who recommended a spindle oil, like I think velocite 6. The good bit about watchmaker lathes is the ways should be ok with a dry lubricant rather than the heavy and sticky way oil you would need on a larger industrial lathe.

oiling of the headstock as far as I have seen is essentially a hole at either end of the headstock that you put a couple of drops of spindle oil in before every use.

I’m sure there will be more knowledgeable folks along to help further.

 

Tom

[rjenkinsgb]

I'd go with engine oil, preferably synthetic but normal is OK.

Oil grade is pretty much down to the size of the parts and the forces involved. The spindle is quite big and can be subject to quite high forces while cutting.

The spindle bearings need small quantities of oil fairly regularly to prevent friction and wear. The next most important are any leadscrews - move whatever part one way, apply a trace of oil to the screw and immediately move the part back so the nut is over the oil.

Every point where two parts slide against each other in use should have at least a trace of lubrication; also any bare iron or steel parts need something to prevent corrosion. 

Anything with working movement involving precision pre-loaded (V or dovetail style etc.) slideways such as a compound slide must have regular lubrication on the slides as well as the leadscrew nut. Only tiny amounts, but they should never run dry, else they will start sticking and / or wear, losing accuracy.

Just apply a minuscule drop against the moving part on each friction surface, then move the slide over it so capillary action can distribute it within the parts.

Any surface that has curling or frosting (small scrape marks spread over it) is explicitly intended to have an oil film. The scraped points act as tiny well and stop the oil being pushed away, so it can be carried between the two surfaces.

 

 

To do the oiling, I'd suggest you get some disposable syringes and luer lock blunt tip applicator needles, similar to this type of thing - there are many types and packs available:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/135015500545

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/365256781089

They are brilliant for controlled oil application or applying glues etc. Half fill with oil, and pull the plunger back slightly to drain the needle after use. (And store needle upwards to prevent drips).

 

[GregG]

2 minutes ago, tomh207 said:

I suppose it should be easier than a conversation around watch lubricating.

like you I have seen all sorts of recommendations from as you say sewing machine to high performance motor oil. What does however make more sense to me is the folks who recommended a spindle oil, like I think velocite 6. The good bit about watchmaker lathes is the ways should be ok with a dry lubricant rather than the heavy and sticky way oil you would need on a larger industrial lathe.

oiling of the headstock as far as I have seen is essentially a hole at either end of the headstock that you put a couple of drops of spindle oil in before every use.

I’m sure there will be more knowledgeable folks along to help further.

 

Tom

Thank you.  I should have clarified, I know that there are oil holes in the front and back of the headstock, but I want to disassemble it to clean it, since there may be residues or dust/dirt/grime inside it.  As for spindle oil, it looks like Mobile has a spindle oil called Velocite, but I can only find it in gallon increments.

[tomh207]

6 minutes ago, GregG said:

Thank you.  I should have clarified, I know that there are oil holes in the front and back of the headstock, but I want to disassemble it to clean it, since there may be residues or dust/dirt/grime inside it.  As for spindle oil, it looks like Mobile has a spindle oil called Velocite, but I can only find it in gallon increments.

What make of lathe is it Greg? Both @Dell and @Jon have good strip down and build videos of pultra and Wolf Jahn lathe headstocks respectively.

Torsion Dell and Jon the watch YouTube channels.

Tom

[rjenkinsgb]

Oils for large machine tools are not necessarily appropriate for the same things on small machines, as spindle bearings on large machines usually have pressure fed and recirculating lubrication, vs. total loss on the small ones. It would be OK, but no advantage over a similar grade engine oil.

[tomh207]

2 minutes ago, rjenkinsgb said:

Oils for large machine tools are not necessarily appropriate for the same things on small machines, as spindle bearings on large machines usually have pressure fed and recirculating lubrication, vs. total loss on the small ones. It would be OK, but no advantage over a similar grade engine oil.

Makes sense Rob otherwise we wouldn’t be raising a second mortgage for moebius products , bet they have something special for watchmaker lathes too.

So as a reasonable alternative would you say something like Mobil 1 synthetic 0w/40 (I think) would be ok? I’m sure I have some in the back off the garage from my midlife car crisis days.

 

Tom

[GregG]

@tomh207, thanks for the tip about the YouTube videos.  I'll check them out.  Synthetic motor oil is pretty cheap and comes in smaller containers, so maybe I'll head to the local auto parts shop this weekend and pick up some 0W oil.  One more question regarding the spindle: how freely should the spindle spin if you manually jog it?  I've seen a few videos where people will manually spin it and it looks to be free running.

On mine, it doesn't spin freely at all, you have to grab it and turn it in order to get it to move.  What does that usually indicate?  Dirt/dust/grime or preload issues?

[rjenkinsgb]

24 minutes ago, tomh207 said:

So as a reasonable alternative would you say something like Mobil 1 synthetic 0w/40 (I think) would be ok?

Yep, 0W?? or 10W?? (20/30/40) should be fine

[tomh207]

@GregG I am just learning about this stuff myself. It should be free turning with little force is what I have found so far. It sounds like the bearings are dry and likely dirty so a strip down, clean and relube is in order.

there is a lot of good discussion and advice in this recent thread, worth a read.

 

Tom

[rjenkinsgb]

2 minutes ago, GregG said:

One more question regarding the spindle: how freely should the spindle spin if you manually jog it?  I've seen a few videos where people will manually spin it and it looks to be free running.

On mine, it doesn't spin freely at all, you have to grab it and turn it in order to get it to move.  What does that usually indicate?  Dirt/dust/grime or preload issues?

It should turn quite easily and completely smoothly - though if it's the normal taper & angle bush setup, I'd not expect it spin freely more than 1/4 turn to a turn after you give it a flick; if it does that implies something too loose to me.

Ballrace bearing spindles can keep spinning after a flick, as they don't have the large metal to metal surfaces the taper bush style do.

If it's tight or gritty, in needs dismantling and cleaning. Don't try to remove the outer bushes from the headstock frame, though, they are pressed in and the alignment is critical.

[mbwatch]

3 minutes ago, tomh207 said:

there is a lot of good discussion and advice in this recent thread, worth a read.

Also there was a "sister thread" with deeper info on headstock refurbishing

 

[rjenkinsgb]

This is a typical design, though each manufacturer has variations - like oil holes centred or at the end etc.

[GregG]

Do the spindles typically come out towards the back of the headstock, or the front?  Or is it manufacturer specific?

[Dell]

This is the oil I use Castro hyspin 10

 

[rjenkinsgb]

4 hours ago, GregG said:

Do the spindles typically come out towards the back of the headstock, or the front?  Or is it manufacturer specific?

Every one I've seen has the nut on the back; possibly under a friction fit cover. The spindle comes out the front once the nut and pulley are released.

That nut is also the main adjustment for the bearings.

The biggest problem I've had trying to dismantle spindles is getting the locking screw out of the pulley! I have two that I cannot (so far) remove the screws from. Both are paxolin type pulleys.

ps. Can you provide the make, and/or photos??

 

2 hours ago, Dell said:

This is the oil I use Castro hyspin 10

According to the Castrol data sheet, that's hydraulic oil??

Quote

Hyspin AWS is classified as follows:

DIN 51502 classification - HLP ISO 6743/4 - Hydraulic Oils Type HM

 

pps. For info, a significant percentage of drive system problems on the large machines I generally work with are caused by lubrication problems, varying from wrong types of oil to plain lack of oil or oil leaking faster than it put in, so I have learned quite a bit about different types of lubricants over the years.

One of the commonest problems is places using gear or hydraulic oil in place of slideway oil - or suppliers recyling oil and selling it as slideway, though it's not got the additives needed!

[GregG]

I actually bought the "Sincere" Chinese lathe that can be found on eBay.  It came pretty much doused in a layer of oil of an unknown composition. 

I would provide pictures, but last year I switched to a basic flip phone instead of my smartphone, and the camera on that bad boy is a whopping 0.3 MP and can't really focus on close objects, so I've given up on any sort of intricate photography.

I did disassemble it about half an hour ago and it was very easy.  Two nuts securing the rear screw, one securing the pulley, and the thing just pops out the front.  Three interesting things I found though: the rear pressed bearing can spin, but the front one does not have any spinning component.

Second, the rear bearing has an oil reservoir on the top but I can't quite figure out how the oil is delivered to the spindle.  There is a small protruding piece that looks like how you align a keyway but ultimately I don't know what it does.

And lastly, the front bearing also has an oil reservoir, but the hole in the bearing is on the bottom.  So I'm assuming oil travels from the top, down and around the bearing, and comes out through the bottom?

Edited March 13 by GregG

[rjenkinsgb]

Caseback had a problem with a wrong part of a bush rotating, in one of the linked threads.

I'd expect the two bearings to have similar oil feed paths, if you look at each from its outer end?

 

Some types may have oil reservoirs underneath, with felt wicks to back in to feed the bearing.

Example of a type of Lorch headstock, from a thread on modelengineer.co.uk:

 

[GregG]

I'll try to get some photos when I'm back home today to make sure that I'm not explaining this incorrectly.

[rjenkinsgb]

I've been trying to find a manual for the Sincere / Vector lathes, but no luck - if one exists online, it may be under a Chinese title.

 

My searching did find this, somehow - which I cannot believe to be correct.

Worth a try for £49 & free shipping, though!!!!!

[AndyGSi]

55 minutes ago, rjenkinsgb said:

I've been trying to find a manual for the Sincere / Vector lathes, but no luck - if one exists online, it may be under a Chinese title.

 

My searching did find this, somehow - which I cannot believe to be correct.

Worth a try for £49 & free shipping, though!!!!!

OK if it wasn't a scam site!!!!

[GregG]

Damn, I guess I got ripped off!

[Neverenoughwatches]

On 3/13/2025 at 5:58 PM, tomh207 said:

I suppose it should be easier than a conversation around watch lubricating.

like you I have seen all sorts of recommendations from as you say sewing machine to high performance motor oil. What does however make more sense to me is the folks who recommended a spindle oil, like I think velocite 6. The good bit about watchmaker lathes is the ways should be ok with a dry lubricant rather than the heavy and sticky way oil you would need on a larger industrial lathe.

oiling of the headstock as far as I have seen is essentially a hole at either end of the headstock that you put a couple of drops of spindle oil in before every use.

I’m sure there will be more knowledgeable folks along to help further.

 

Tom

I use Mobil Velocite, not sure who recommended it , one of the pros, might have been Nicklesilver 

[GregG]

Pic #1: So the entire rear bearing spins.  The keyway pin, and everything connected to it, up to the split metal ring, all spins.

Pic #2: There is no oil deposit hole in the read bearing, but there is a gap between the bearing and knurled metal ring that I think is where oil makes it to the spindle.

Pic #3: The oil well at the bottom of the front bearing.  I believe oil is deposited to this in a similar fashion as the rear bearing; the oil travels in the gap between the outside of the bearing, and the inside of the housing.  Once it reaches the bottom, it is  picked up by the spindle.

[Neverenoughwatches]

1 hour ago, GregG said:

Pic #1: So the entire rear bearing spins.  The keyway pin, and everything connected to it, up to the split metal ring, all spins.

Pic #2: There is no oil deposit hole in the read bearing, but there is a gap between the bearing and knurled metal ring that I think is where oil makes it to the spindle.

Pic #3: The oil well at the bottom of the front bearing.  I believe oil is deposited to this in a similar fashion as the rear bearing; the oil travels in the gap between the outside of the bearing, and the inside of the housing.  Once it reaches the bottom, it is  picked up by the spindle.

Spin the knurled ring that has a split in it. Split to the top then you will see the oil hole that lubes the bearings. The ring turns to expose and recover the hole, it will be tight to turn. 

It should turn by hand, thumb and index finger.