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Center wheel spindle fit

graemeW
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graemeW WRT Addict

graemeW

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This watch has a center wheel with a push out center pin. The cannon pinion is tight on this pin.

Am I right in thinking there needs to be some slip in the system to set the hands? In some movements the cannon pinion slips on the pin, in this movement the pin slips in the center wheel.

I have 2 movements. One has a good wheel but the pin is very tight (it's bent and got some dents, presumably to tighten it up in the wheel) the second has a snug fitting pin, feels good, but the wheel is rough.

Good pin in good wheel is loose.

Am I right in thinking if it's loose the hour hand won't turn as the center wheel won't turn the cannon pinion.

 

Assuming all my thinking is right so far, my question is, how much slip is needed? 

I'm sort of going on some incomplete information I picked up somewhere else, I might have gotten how this works wrong.

The cannon pinion is very tough to remove as it's tight on the pin, so don't really want to be taking it apart over and over trying to get this right.

20250205_171038.thumb.jpg.85928f255ebfdb4323436e2ed469f40d.jpg

While we're at it, what's the proper way to get the cannon pinion off these? I'm sure it's not the way I did it 😂. Also, what's the proper way to refit? I've done one before, I supported the bottom of the shaft and pushed the pinion on. Not 100% sure I got it on far enough, but it all worked. Are you supposed to use a staking set and knock the pinion back on?

 

JohnR725 Distinguished Member

JohnR725

Posted
Posted

Really quite interesting I was looking for something I saw last night when I didn't have time to respond. You'll notice the other discussion which I have now found is basically very similar to yours. But not exactly the same

2 hours ago, graemeW said:

The cannon pinion is very tough to remove as it's tight on the pin

It's supposed to be tight on the pin otherwise the whole thing is not going to work right.

2 hours ago, graemeW said:

proper way to get the cannon pinion off these

You really want to have both plate screwed together. This will keep the center wheel from moving around and possibly breaking a center wheel jewel if it has one. So holding the movement in one hand I take a small hammer and just tap the pin that's sticking up typically. Otherwise it would have to go into a staking set to something pointy if the pin is not sticking up. Also you could use a staking set the first place. But in the staking set your be very careful how your supporting it on the other side that you don't break things. Then of course you can use the staking set of a reassembly as you do want the cannon pinion tight on the pin.

2 hours ago, graemeW said:

(it's bent

Seeing as how this question comes up so much I asked him a folder of pictures with text

image.png.00c5bfbd9ea1c6ebdc3ec2d9beaa0fc4.png

image.png.260ff9884dd5dca82eaeb6cfa527f699.png

 

 

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graemeW WRT Addict

graemeW

Posted
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Posted
46 minutes ago, JohnR725 said:

Really quite interesting I was looking for something I saw last night when I didn't have time to respond. You'll notice the other discussion which I have now found is basically very similar to yours. But not exactly the same

It's supposed to be tight on the pin otherwise the whole thing is not going to work right.

You really want to have both plate screwed together. This will keep the center wheel from moving around and possibly breaking a center wheel jewel if it has one. So holding the movement in one hand I take a small hammer and just tap the pin that's sticking up typically. Otherwise it would have to go into a staking set to something pointy if the pin is not sticking up. Also you could use a staking set the first place. But in the staking set your be very careful how your supporting it on the other side that you don't break things. Then of course you can use the staking set of a reassembly as you do want the cannon pinion tight on the pin.

Seeing as how this question comes up so much I asked him a folder of pictures with text

image.png.00c5bfbd9ea1c6ebdc3ec2d9beaa0fc4.png

image.png.260ff9884dd5dca82eaeb6cfa527f699.png

 

 

Thanks, I'll have a good read through that later 

mbwatch Super WRT Addict

mbwatch

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, graemeW said:

One has a good wheel but the pin is very tight (it's bent and got some dents, presumably to tighten it up in the wheel)

Yeah the bend is intentional - that's where the friction comes from. These usually will have a slight curvature.

graemeW WRT Addict

graemeW

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4 minutes ago, mbwatch said:

Yeah the bend is intentional - that's where the friction comes from. These usually will have a slight curvature.

This one has quite a savage bend at the end, presumably to tighten it, but it's too tight really. Took quite a bit of doing to get the pin out.

The good pin only has a slight bend. It fit quite nicely in it's original wheel, but the bearing surfaces in that wheel are shot.

graemeW WRT Addict

graemeW

Posted
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Posted

Sorted this, thanks for the above info.

I rolled the original shaft between 2 bits of hardened steel to reduce the bend and burnish down some high spots and it fits lovely. Hopefully just the right amount of friction.

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