Starting with watch repairs, what lubricants do I need?

[JohnR725]

7 hours ago, semmyroundel said:

What could be going on, could the 'speed adjuster' have moved, is it tightenable?

if this was a Chinese watch yes the regulator can move all by itself. but if it does move it's not going to be in a bad position the next day and a good position if you wind up back up again for instance it's probably going stay wherever it is once it moves. But if this is a Seiko watch it should stay word supposed to be.

Then we really need a proper timing procedure to understand your pictures. For instance were all pictures the timing with the watch dial down? Ideally what we need is dial down, dial up and if you're going to be lazy about this one crown/pendant position for wristwatch typically crown down. It's why the movement holder can rotate to do this. Then you usually want to let the watch stabilize about 30 seconds each time you change its position or even when you put the watch on the timing machine. Then you want to measure for about 30 seconds just to let things also stabilize then you can take your pictures.

8 hours ago, semmyroundel said:

Knowing that they can't be wound by hand

then if the back is off typically with Seiko watches they can't be wound. Just not with the crown. Sometimes Seiko even give you specification of how much winding and that would be to turn the ratchet wheel screw a is can't remember what the typical Seiko is for fully wound up. As I said some of the technical sheets waxy tell you how many returns to turn the ratchet wheel screw to be wound up.

 

 

[semmyroundel]

Thanks JohnR725, for continuity, the timegrapher was in the dial up position throughout all these tests. I do appreciate that ultimately the tests would have to carried out in its normal attitude, as in crown down, dial facing foward, but I wanted to establish a control method before proceeding to fine tune it-as it happens I haven't even got over the first hurdle.

This movement CANNOT be crown wound, as I said previously, it was on the watch winder at least a month maybe two prior to the tests. Then my son wore it for a day.

30 seconds and then 30 seconds? Don't make me laugh, it was taking 5 to 10 minutes to stabilise!

Clearly something is very wrong with this movement, and as there was a rogue screw, I'm now thinking what else could be duff on this movement.

Any further ideas?

 

 

[JohnR725]

On 1/3/2025 at 11:16 AM, semmyroundel said:

Any further ideas?

I would have other ideas but don't see the point let me quote something is from your message above.

 

On 1/3/2025 at 11:16 AM, semmyroundel said:

30 seconds and then 30 seconds? Don't make me laugh, it was taking 5 to 10 minutes to stabilise!

Maybe that's indicating a problem? Should we explore this?

 

On 1/3/2025 at 11:16 AM, semmyroundel said:

This movement CANNOT be crown wound, as I said previously, it was on the watch winder at least a month maybe two prior to the tests. Then my son wore it for a day.

That's interesting it cannot be wound by the crown and I really like that the word Well let me quote

On 1/3/2025 at 11:16 AM, semmyroundel said:

CANNOT

It's in capital letters cannot be wound by the crown how sad let me quote something

On 1/2/2025 at 1:12 PM, JohnR725 said:

then if the back is off typically with Seiko watches they can't be wound. Just not with the crown. Sometimes Seiko even give you specification of how much winding and that would be to turn the ratchet wheel screw a is can't remember what the typical Seiko is for fully wound up. As I said some of the technical sheets waxy tell you how many returns to turn the ratchet wheel screw to be wound up.

So basically my first liner so indicates it can't be wound by the crown which you're telling me again did you know Seiko watches typically can't be wound went crown? Well let's not entirely true older Seiko is that were hand wound could be wound where crown and quite a few of the newer watches can be wound with the crown. But Seiko thought of that problem and you can turn the ratchet wheel screw which is what I set up above. If you like I'll get you newer tech sheet that explains That I believe in the newer tech sheet is looking at for a slightly different watch which could be wound with the crown but it also suggested you could wind the ratchet wheel eight turns and you're all wound up

On 1/3/2025 at 11:16 AM, semmyroundel said:

the timegrapher was in the dial up position throughout all these tests. I do appreciate that ultimately the tests would have to carried out in its normal attitude, as in crown down, dial facing foward, but I wanted to establish a control method before proceeding to fine tune it-as it happens I haven't even got over the first hurdle.

I don't think you grasp the possibilities of what a timing machine is used for. The number one use that I use one for is diagnostic purposes timing is a secondary purpose of the timing machine at least for me.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[semmyroundel]

Thanks JohnR725, I only meant that watch in particular can't be crown wound, a peculiarity of that movement perhaps?

The caps was not for you, but in case others questioned how wound it was on before putting on the timegrapher, I think I was asked if I'd fully wound it. Also I do appreciate the uses of it, maybe not all, just that I've got to start somewhere.

A mistake that I have made, I subsequently found out is the movement of the spur on its arm- a you tube video showing the use of the timegrapher didn't cover that.

Edited January 5 by semmyroundel

[JohnR725]

How about we start fresh? Well sort of starting fresh? Let's start with things that we've already figured out or were recently discovering? Like what exactly is wrong with this watch?

On 1/3/2025 at 11:16 AM, semmyroundel said:

30 seconds and then 30 seconds? Don't make me laugh, it was taking 5 to 10 minutes to stabilise!

Let's start with this it takes 10 minutes to stabilize? Now remote diagnostic requires that your my eyes which means it's doing something really weird on the timing machine I like to see pictures or just described what you're seeing as it should not take 10 minutes to stabilize.

Then for diagnostic reasons it's nice to look at the watch dial up and dial down as they should be very close to being identical. Then one of the crown positions Crown down is convenient on a wristwatch. In the crown positions you always lose some amplitude but if your watches having issues like this one were probably going to see it lose a lot of amplitude.

Then it's good that this was a lubrication discussion because more than likely the watches going to need a complete servicing. But it's good learning to diagnose with the timing machine.

Then the other one I'm curious about is and this is back to the timing procedure. Typically for the watch companies they only care about amplitude at 24 hours. Unfortunately for us with Seiko they will publish the lift angle which we need for measuring amplitude but with the exception of one of their vintage watches where they feel 180° is acceptable nowhere else do they ever published amplitudes. But they are concerned with timekeeping although Seiko timekeeping is not out of the box considered stellar typically

So let's just start with three different positions of the watch on the timing machine and when you changed positions tell me what you're seeing.

Then I was curious about something so why did Internet search here is a website. His axial whole bunch of websites explain all of this this one was just convenient. Thanks to your excellent photograph I could read the serial number and the model number of the watch and we find out that serial number identification of manufacturing date is not exactly an exact science but close enough. It brings up the problems I think I mentioned before which is you may purchase the watch brand-new today but how long has it been in existence? Plus has it been sitting in a jewelry store under hot lights all of the time? Then things get even worse if other people of played with your watch before you. So looks like worst-case date about seven years old.

The watch was made in July 1998,2008,2018

https://retroseiko.com/seiko-serial.htm