Hairspring Offcenter Issue

[Neverenoughwatches]

1 hour ago, praezis said:

May be too much forgiveness! How about the severe cut in the safety roller? 

This.   Would the pin's corners generally be more in aligned with the passing notch like so ? Generally? 

19 minutes ago, praezis said:

You neglect the safety dart / safety roller function! There is more than just impulse pin / fork action …

Frank

Thought the safety had to be smooth all around , in the event of a watch impact if the gaurd pin touched to retrieve the banking.

[SwissSeiko]

35 minutes ago, praezis said:

You neglect the safety dart / safety roller function! There is more than just impulse pin / fork action …

Frank

 

21 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

This.   Would the pin's corners generally be more in aligned with the passing notch like so ? Generally? 

 

Thought the safety had to be smooth all around , in the event of a watch impact if the gaurd pin touched to retrieve the banking.

I guess I was abbreviating slightly. In a normal, undamaged watch, the crescent and guard pin will be in proper alignment, and will not need adjusting. I have yet to service a movement where these needed to be adjusted and frankly I am not even sure if the safety roller can be rotated, as I think its a solid part of the roller table. Maybe I'm wrong though, i haven't looked super closely. I have replaced balance staffs that had the staff replaced a few times, and the roller table was all kinds of marred up and bent, but the clearance was there for the horns and guard pin, so it was just cosmetic

[Neverenoughwatches]

5 minutes ago, SwissSeiko said:

 

I guess I was abbreviating slightly. In a normal, undamaged watch, the crescent and guard pin will be in proper alignment, and will not need adjusting. I have yet to service a movement where these needed to be adjusted and frankly I am not even sure if the safety roller can be rotated, as I think its a solid part of the roller table. Maybe I'm wrong though, i haven't looked super closely. I have replaced balance staffs that had the staff replaced a few times, and the roller table was all kinds of marred up and bent, but the clearance was there for the horns and guard pin, so it was just cosmetic

I'm sure they were seperate at one time. Simple pin levers dont even have them. I guess some damage to the table is acceptable as its a carrier but bent up it may not be carrying that important bit so well. The safety roller, more critical that it should be in better shape.

[gpraceman]

3 hours ago, praezis said:

May be too much forgiveness! How about the severe cut in the safety roller? 

You mean the scratches on the top of the roller jewel?  Other side is smooth.  I could flip the jewel over.  It's loose anyways.  I was thinking of soaking the roller table in IPA to clean it and dissolve any remaining shellac and then re-shellac it.

[Neverenoughwatches]

3 minutes ago, gpraceman said:

You mean the scratches on the top of the roller jewel?  Other side is smooth.  I could flip the jewel over.  It's loose anyways.  I was thinking of soaking the roller table in IPA to clean it and dissolve any remaining shellac and then re-shellac it.

Nah mate , Frank is telling you about the gash in the safety roller, i marked it up for you in purple.

At least thats how it appears 

[praezis]

3 minutes ago, gpraceman said:

You mean the scratches on the top of the roller jewel?

No. I mean the cut in the circumference of the smaller (safety-)roller - and no, not the recess at the impulse jewel position.

[Neverenoughwatches]

4 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Nah mate , Frank is telling you about the gash in the safety roller, i marked it up for you in purple.

At least thats how it appears 

If the gaurd pin ( frank tells it as safety dart) if it's decided to come into play , will it catch the safety roller damage ?  Forewarned makes forearmed,  fix things before they fix you.

[nevenbekriev]

We need to see the roller from aside, not from above. If the cylindrical surface of the guard roller is smooth where the guard pin can touch the surface, then everything is OK. There is a video somewhere in the beginning of the thread and there no defect on the surface is seen

Well in the video the roller rotates fast so not much can be seen, but I don't imagine how such deep cut can be done, so may be it is actually not deep but just a mark and more like photo doesn't show correctly

[gpraceman]

3 hours ago, nevenbekriev said:

We need to see the roller from aside, not from above. If the cylindrical surface of the guard roller is smooth where the guard pin can touch the surface, then everything is OK. There is a video somewhere in the beginning of the thread and there no defect on the surface is seen

Looks smooth to me.  The roller jewel, that is.  There is a ding to the metal.

Edited August 16, 2024 by gpraceman

[nevenbekriev]

This ding actually may lead to sudden stops with the balance locked by guard pin fallen in the ding. The ding can be filled with led solder and  surface smoothed.

[gpraceman]

40 minutes ago, nevenbekriev said:

This ding actually may lead to sudden stops with the balance locked by guard pin fallen in the ding. The ding can be filled with led solder and  surface smoothed.

That'd be a challenge to file, since the roller table is so small.

[nevenbekriev]

1 minute ago, gpraceman said:

That'd be a challenge to file, since the roller table is so small.

I didn't mean to file the ding. This will be wrong. I mean to fill it with solder, just like with car body filler, but with soldering iron and solder. Then surface of the guard roller must be restored to the correct shape and size. By file, lathe or whatever method You like. Yes, it is small, just like all parts in the watch movement. The main and most important tool in watchmaking is the file.

[gpraceman]

16 minutes ago, nevenbekriev said:

I didn't mean to file the ding. This will be wrong. I mean to fill it with solder, just like with car body filler, but with soldering iron and solder. Then surface of the guard roller must be restored to the correct shape and size. By file, lathe or whatever method You like. Yes, it is small, just like all parts in the watch movement. The main and most important tool in watchmaking is the file.

Yes, I understood what you meant to file.  Holding it while filing the solder will be the challenge.  I don't have a lathe (yet), but I'm sure that I can figure something out. It would seem best to attempt that without the roller jewel in place.