Unwinding a mainspring

[linux]

So I've taken about a month off after the holidays and a knee injury but ready to get back to the bench.  I've disassembled my 6497 (first one) and did not bother to take out the main spring since I wasn't sure if I wanted to install it by hand.  Since then I've acquired a mini-set of Bergeon winders, but I think I will re-wind by hand anyway just to get the experience.

But my question is whether there is a better way to unwind a spring than by hand.  I'll do it by hand but I've read that you can deform (I think coning is the term?) a spring by either winding or unwinding by hand.  I've certainly not heard of an "un-winder" but if you wanted to lube a serviceable spring are you pretty much left to unwind by hand?

[timeshed]

So, I'm new to this also, but I've watched a few pros do it on YouTube. You're right; there doesn't seem to be any instruction other than to be careful and unwind coil by coil. I think the main thing to remember is that if that thing unwinds too fast or flies across the room, you could break the... BRAKE? You know, the piece at the end that forks off from the mainspring coil. Once unwound, most mainsprings will have that very nice S-shaped curve, and if you get to that point, I think you've done a great job.

Also, if cleaning in a machine that agitates, it's possible to break a very old mainspring or separate that BRAKE. Ask me how I know 

I think everyone should try winding them by hand a few times just in case you don't have the right winder in the future and need to wind by hand and be cautious about applying grease before replacing them back into the barrel. The most egregious crimes in watch lubrication are those watches that, when opened up, the mainspring is full of grease and leaking into the rest of the movement.

I would love to know if there are other ways of unwinding but it does seem to be something most do by hand.

Also, my favourite watchmaker/technician to watch and learn from is @watchrepairtutorials on YT. He has a few great videos on lubrication and mainspring servicing. I've learned most of what I know through Alex who runs that channel. Truly valuable tutorials. Still need to find a good set of Bergeon winders myself. I think that's the pint of no return. If you have a set of Bergeon winders, you are invested 

[JohnR725]

in clock repair is the only place I know of where the mainspring can be removed with tools rather than by just pulling out. But that's because clock mainsprings are so much bigger than watches and if things get out a hand it can be very very bad because of all that force.

8 hours ago, timeshed said:

careful and unwind coil by coil

that's a common method you do have to be careful though that the whole thing doesn't get away from you and  everything goes flying away possibly to never be seen again. this is the usual recommendation if you are thinking of reusing the mainspring.

typically in fact that's never been the method that I used I just pull the spring out from the center. This safe method of doing this is under a cloth towel or wrapped in a towel for instance. Your hands are under the towel you can't see what you're doing but you can tell by feel and nothing's going to fly away. I usually do it by holding the barrel in my left hand and pulling with my right hand but I'm dealing with pocket watch barrels which are really easy to hold onto versus wristwatch which are a lot smaller a be better to do this under a towel.

 

9 hours ago, linux said:

I'll do it by hand but I've read that you can deform (I think coning is the term?) a spring by either winding or unwinding by hand. 

the concern with hand insertion and improper use of the mainspring winders is distorting the mainspring. Typically in the case of vintage blued steel spring as they come out they have a nice cone shaped to them. That is believed caused by hand insertion of the spring.

8 hours ago, timeshed said:

Also, if cleaning in a machine that agitates, it's possible to break a very old mainspring or separate that BRAKE. Ask me how I know

in general I don't think I've ever seen a recommendation of cleaning a mainspring in the cleaning machine. For instance modern Omega recommends dry cloth no solvents and definitely no cleaning machine for the mainspring itself.

here's an example from Omega from the late 50s where they do give us a clue about solvents why they're bad.

so typically should build just wipe the spring off you might still get stuck with some form of a solvent if the prior lubrication is nasty and sticky. Although it Omega's case especially the newer version they are not worried about sticky lubrication because there shouldn't be any visible lubrication out all.

Here's a for instance mainspring packages are quite amusing especially the newer ones with the non-blued steel Springs. Notice basically the perfect they will last forever they will not break they will not well actually they will break and it will shatter and they can get rusty. But noticed two of the packages say something interesting or self lubricating? This is one of those horological mysteries of the universe of it says that it's lubricated but I can't see the lubrication? So watchmakers have had theories that the particular steel doesn't actually need lubrication it will slide on itself. Others are various forms of dry lubrication. Or Omega document attached which tells you what they were using at least initially they may not be using this anymore.

8 hours ago, timeshed said:

The most egregious crimes in watch lubrication are those watches that, when opened up, the mainspring is full of grease and leaking into the rest of the movement.

you should open up a modern Seiko watch and look at  its mainspring barrel it is filled with Greece usually a peculiar grayish substance. Fortunately the barrel is sealed up nice and tight there are no little openings like you typically find on older watches so it doesn't go losing out across the universe. Basically this at the extremely stringent with your lubrication on the mainspring otherwise it will escape.

This is where anyone new to watch repair once they complete a watch they should have it for at least a year and six months or year from now taken apart and see how things look.  like put it on the timing machine see if it still performing like it did a year ago see if your lubrication is wherever you originally placed it and see if the mainspring lubrication is leaked out across the universe. Unfortunately with watch repair you can see some instant effects of poor lubrication choices but it really takes at least a year or more to see the effect of bad lubrication choices.

then here's Omega's recommendations if you're reusing a mainspring  then I can't always follow these recommendations like the first part the beautiful S curve. I've taken a mainspring is out of packages vintage Elgin Hamilton as they both had alloys that wouldn't set and they had beautiful back curse vintage new old stock. But modern spring is made in modern Swiss factories for pocket watches often times do not have beautiful back curves. One of them in particular basically had a curve  for the harbor and more or less went straight out with basically almost no curve at all. Brand-new unit sealed package you get a lot of quality variations. Typically have wristwatches you'll never noticed this because if it's a new spring you're just going to push it in from the ring. The typically a pocket watches they have to come out of the ring and go in either by hand which I do not prefer or with the main spring Winder as you have to get the end to catch. Then when you take the spring out that's when you make the observation of the poor quality of your spring otherwise you would never know.

 

 

 

Omega technical guide number 30 1963 self lubricating mainsprings.pdf

[Waggy]

I have wondered the same thing about removing the spring. But I came to the conclusion that removing it is probably less stressful as the spring is leaving the barrel under its own action. Unlike inserting a spring which can be pushed too hard resulting in kinking or backwards (not the first time I have coiled a spring only to notice I coiled it left handed instead of right handed) or...? I think it's just one of those situations where you just have to do the best you can and live with the risk that you may have to replace it.

I am sure if there was a market for it, and it was technically possible to mechanically un-wind a watch mainspring our friendly Swiss tool manufacturer would be selling it by now for crazy money

[Neverenoughwatches]

2 hours ago, Waggy said:

I have wondered the same thing about removing the spring. But I came to the conclusion that removing it is probably less stressful as the spring is leaving the barrel under its own action. Unlike inserting a spring which can be pushed too hard resulting in kinking or backwards (not the first time I have coiled a spring only to notice I coiled it left handed instead of right handed) or...? I think it's just one of those situations where you just have to do the best you can and live with the risk that you may have to replace it.

I am sure if there was a market for it, and it was technically possible to mechanically un-wind a watch mainspring our friendly Swiss tool manufacturer would be selling it by now for crazy money

Its possible with some nifty homemade gadget in the same way that a clock mainspring is wound within its barrel, captured, held and withdrawn. Would be very fiddly though,i wouldn't like to attempt it. Most springs I've taken out and laid on a flat surface have some lift on the them. Maybe down to hand winding one in previously,i wouldn't know if it was a first time removal. The pros would know the answer to this. But since the removal is the reverse of hand winding i dont see the difference, upon start of removal most folk are pulling the center coil which is creating that cone to begin with. I unwind initially with some thin wide brass tweezers slotted between two coils and then turn the barrel. Take out the arbor first by backing out the hook and tilting the arbor out of its position once the hook is released so no need to worry about a flyer. When around half the coils are out then fingers replace tweezers and engaged in the process of letting half a coil out at a time from one side of the barrel to the other As the last few coils are approached slow things down and revert to turning the barrel again to let the remaining coils unfold into your right hand slowly and under strick control concentrating much more on holding the barrel and spring, this is when last coil can flick out forcibly if you let it.