Watch Case Quandry

[gpraceman]

I bought a small lot of watches off eBay to learn off of (a Stellaris, a Mido and an Elgin).  The Stellaris cleaned up really well and turned into a pretty nice watch.  The Mido has a broken pallet fork pivot (maybe I'll attempt that repair at a future date).  The Elgin has a really beat up case, so I didn't have a lot of hope for the condition of the movement.  I was quite surprised to open it up and the movement was pristine and the dial was in good shape.  It's a very nice gold plated movement (Elgin 996 - AS 1902/03).  It is missing the automatic works, but it runs nicely after servicing.

On to my question.  I don't know that the case can be saved as there are significant chunks of metal missing from the back side.  So, what to do with that movement?  The odds of finding a replacement case seem remote.

What do you do with such "orphan" movements?  Just scavenge them for parts?  Stick them in a drawer and hope that one day you find a case for them?   Try to find another of the same movement that has a decent case and get at least one good watch put together from the two?  Put it up for sale for someone looking for a donor movement?

Edited July 8, 2023 by gpraceman

[Nucejoe]

This is a common problem with gold plated base metal bezel, more discouraging is the news that stainless cases were probably never made for this dial to fit in, but this movement with different dial plate has been put in many stainless steel cases, so best is if you can find a case and dial for this caliber. 

Lots of search, patiance and luck.

Rgds

[Walt]

I'v been experimenting with 3-d printing of watch cases.  I realize that won't  work for anything I was trying to restore, but it could give new life to an OK movement.  Still in the very early stages of this experimenting - the one in the picture was downloaded from thingiverse, but i'll be trying to design my own.

Edited July 8, 2023 by Walt

[RichardHarris123]

15 hours ago, gpraceman said:

I bought a small lot of watches off eBay to learn off of (a Stellaris, a Mido and an Elgin).  The Stellaris cleaned up really well and turned into a pretty nice watch.  The Mido has a broken pallet fork pivot (maybe I'll attempt that repair at a future date).  The Elgin has a really beat up case, so I didn't have a lot of hope for the condition of the movement.  I was quite surprised to open it up and the movement was pristine and the dial was in good shape.  It's a very nice gold plated movement (Elgin 996 - AS 1902/03).  It is missing the automatic works, but it runs nicely after servicing.

On to my question.  I don't know that the case can be saved as there are significant chunks of metal missing from the back side.  So, what to do with that movement?  The odds of finding a replacement case seem remote.

What do you do with such "orphan" movements?  Just scavenge them for parts?  Stick them in a drawer and hope that one day you find a case for them?   Try to find another of the same movement that has a decent case and get at least one good watch put together from the two?  Put it up for sale for someone looking for a donor movement?

Are you going to try and renovate the case and see how it turns out? 

[gpraceman]

7 hours ago, Walt said:

I'v been experimenting with 3-d printing of watch cases.  I realize that won't  work for anything I was trying to restore, but it could give new life to an OK movement.  Still in the very early stages of this experimenting - the one in the picture was downloaded from thingiverse, but i'll be trying to design my own.

I do have a 3D printer but not so sure I'd want a plastic watch case.  Maybe one day 3D metal printing will be affordable for the average Joe.

6 hours ago, RichardHarris123 said:

Are you going to try and renovate the case and see how it turns out? 

I saw this product which would be interesting to see if it would work well on a watch case.  Says it can be used on multiple metals, like brass, be soldered and plated.  Not exactly cheap at $98 for a 3/32" starter kit on Amazon.  With my soldering skill, I would have to do a lot of filing, lol.

 

19 hours ago, Nucejoe said:

This is a common problem with gold plated base metal bezel, more discouraging is the news that stainless cases were probably never made for this dial to fit in, but this movement with different dial plate has been put in many stainless steel cases, so best is if you can find a case and dial for this caliber. 

Lots of search, patiance and luck.

Rgds

I did manage to find another Elgin 996.  This one in a stainless steel case that is in good shape but was a non-runner.  I thought that this was my solution.  Get one good automatic watch out of the two.  Then I got it and opened it up.  My heart sank when I saw that it had a copper plated movement.  The seller's photos fooled me into thinking it was gold colored.  Dial is just a tad bigger and has a beveled edge to it.  Not sure my original Elgin 996 would work with that case and a copper plated auto works on a gold plated movement would just look wrong.  I could get the copper plated movement fully working by scavenging a wheel off of the gold plated one and have a good stainless steel case for it.  However, it would be sad to leave that gold plated one incomplete and without a case.  That got me wanting to get them both working and wearable.  So, back to my original quandry, lol.

Edited July 9, 2023 by gpraceman

[Galilea]

I have wondered why replating seems to be so rarely done. Is it the cost of equiptment, or lack of interested consumers, or is it that dings and divots have to be addressed first, or...? It cannot be the 20 microns of gold' I don't think.

Moving on, have you considered a decorative approach, like gilding, or have you seen it done? I have done gilding on metal, touchup glding on metal without trouble in the past. Fill it with bondo, size and gild. It might work, it might be a pain.

[gpraceman]

7 hours ago, Galilea said:

I have wondered why replating seems to be so rarely done. Is it the cost of equiptment, or lack of interested consumers, or is it that dings and divots have to be addressed first, or...? It cannot be the 20 microns of gold' I don't think.

Moving on, have you considered a decorative approach, like gilding, or have you seen it done? I have done gilding on metal, touchup glding on metal without trouble in the past. Fill it with bondo, size and gild. It might work, it might be a pain.

For me, I am getting just going in this hobby, so my focus has been on getting tools and learning to service the movements.  This certainly is not a cheap hobby.  I do expect at some point I will foray into plating.

If plating was the only issue for this particular watch case.  The back side is missing chunks of metal and has some sharper edges that would likely make wearing it uncomfortable without addressing those.  I thought of just grinding down those edges, but that would look pretty amateurish I think.

[Galilea]

I am a rank beginner, but I have been collecting watches and tools for a  couple of years. I am just about to start the bundle of courses offered here.

The gilding I have done on metal in the past was not related to watches, it was part of my career work sometimes. I'm going to try gilding a case and can let you know how that works.

As far as the orphans go, heh, the question is one I somehow never pondered much. I just gather them. I will say that one main reason I started liking watches has to do with your question. I won an auction lot of microscope stuff and in it was a watch I dismissed immediately based on it's appearance. It was a clamp on lady's watch with a homemade looking unsigned dial and it looked modern and also fashiony. It said only "Germany" on a case back sticker.

I dropped it and the movement fell out, a pristine 17j. I no longer recall who made it, but I will come across it again someday. That really impressed me, sort of like finding a hidden treasure, and maybe now we know what becomes of some of the many uncollected women's watches of bygone days. Some day, maybe your orphans will become another watchmaker's engine - maybe you will make new watches.

 

[gpraceman]

Miracle of miracles, I was able to find a compatible case for my Elgin 996 on eBay and for only 14 euros, including shipping.  It is an Elgin case and fortunately, the seller listed the inside diameter of the case, which matched the movement, so I took the risk.   The case needs a new crystal and the back is rather scratched up, but I can live with that.  I test fitted the movement and it fits nicely.  So, I have two nice Elgin 996 movements (one gold and one copper) and two stainless steel cases.

If it wasn't for the movement being so nice on the one with the buggered up case, I'd have just serviced the movement for the learning experience and kept it around for parts.  I'll keep the case around to practice on, if I want to learn how to replate down the line.

[gpraceman]

Well, one orphan's case situation has been resolved.  It turned out pretty nicely, I think.  Waiting on a new crystal for the other Elgin 996.

I have one other one that may not be as lucky.  I'm sure there will be others.

 

 

Edited August 2, 2023 by gpraceman

[Galilea]

Sigh.  I just love a happy ending, and it looks so nice. I'm curious - what did the movement look like when you started? 

[gpraceman]

42 minutes ago, Galilea said:

Sigh.  I just love a happy ending, and it looks so nice. I'm curious - what did the movement look like when you started? 

It was surprisingly pristine, but was missing the auto works.  Found those parts as well as the case from an eBay seller in the Netherlands.

Edited August 2, 2023 by gpraceman