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My first true project watch. Really nice condition vintage Seiko 7006a. Non running.


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This is my first time trying to restore and fix up a mystery watch from ebay. If anybody who's worked on these old 70's seikos wants to follow this thread your wisdom would be appreciated!
Picked up this guy for a song on ebay specifically because it's one of the nicest condition ones i've seen with an original dial. THe hands are a little patina'd but the dial seems perfect other than two missing lume pips. I love this dial. THere's no real deep scratches or gouges in the case just a MESS of desk dive scratches that should polish out real easy. It's non running, the date and day roll over with the hands but the day does not roll over if you use the second crown position. The crystal would polish up nicely but there is sadly a small crack at 12 oclock so that will have to be replaced.

PXL_20230206_084742777.thumb.jpg.773833717d2be22e5e25c50b65694f65.jpgPXL_20230206_084941713.thumb.jpg.b5f558158711918f86bc9a5bed2cbc23.jpg 

Opening it up the movement looks pretty good. The balance will move with some pretty strong blows from the bellows but things seemed pretty gummed up and there is what looks like either really old solidified grease or oil or maybe glue under the reduction/ratchet wheel screw. Not sure what is up with that. I'm unsure what is going on with the hairspring as i dont' know what a good one in this movement should look like but it looks a little strange inbetween the stud and the regulator arm. I hope it's not shot but if it is i got a parts movement that does barely run so if i have to scavenge one then hopefully that one works well. The movement looks pretty clean other than some light powder rust. Guess i'll pick up some evaporust unless other people have a better method for de-rusting.

PXL_20230206_090614046.thumb.jpg.73a589157b61af87038eb33f999bb8f0.jpgPXL_20230206_091013317.thumb.jpg.bc405995eb68b2481769f2aad58c4d88.jpg
Under the caseback is what looks like the signature of a watchmaker and v-9-24-87
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Amazing to think this thing hasn't been serviced in almost 40 years. Here's hoping that's all it needs now! 
I'll be diving into this next weekend probably. Real excited to give this boy some new life as i just love this funky 70's design on it.

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Looks like a great pick up.  I also have a sieko with the same movement that I plan to service but the case on mine has some deep gouges.  

I really picked it up as a practice piece but will be following the thread to see your progress.  Good luck

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8 hours ago, Mike78 said:

Looks like a great pick up.  I also have a sieko with the same movement that I plan to service but the case on mine has some deep gouges.  

I really picked it up as a practice piece but will be following the thread to see your progress.  Good luck

It seems a lot like a 72s6 with a bit less plastic. I've done service and repairs on 7s26s and nh36s so i'm not anticipating too many surprises.

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15 minutes ago, lexacat said:

I've done a couple of 7009's now, pretty much the same thing but different day quickset complications. Keen to see how it goes!

I think the biggest unknowns to me currently are:
1. Do you know which mainspring winder parts i need for the 7006? Pretty sure 7002 to 7009 share most of their parts.

2. Are the acrylic crystals in these old 70's seikos just press set or are they tension ring or do i need anything beyond a normal crystal press to set them? 

Edited by Birbdad
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Pretty sure that will be a press fit crystal. All my eBay purchases have come in aftermarket cases or truly ancient glued crystals, however.

Mainspring winder I use an 8200 winder, it works great. And yeah the 7006/7009 use the same mainspring complete, right down to the part number. 201.024

So the mainsprings are the same. Pretty sure that's the case for all 7xxx series.

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36 minutes ago, lexacat said:

Pretty sure that will be a press fit crystal. All my eBay purchases have come in aftermarket cases or truly ancient glued crystals, however.

Mainspring winder I use an 8200 winder, it works great. And yeah the 7006/7009 use the same mainspring complete, right down to the part number. 201.024

So the mainsprings are the same. Pretty sure that's the case for all 7xxx series.

Cool thanks! i'll just have the match the crystal i guess with a good aftermarket replacement.
So when you say 8200 all i see listed are sizes in millimeters.  What does the 8200 designate? I get no results for 8200 mainspring winder other than the cheap china ones people seem to universally hate.

Edited by Birbdad
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Oh right, gotcha. Yeah exactly that, I have the cheap chinese set of winders that everyone hates. They are for specific calibres, and the Miyota 8200 winder works for Seiko 7xxx series.

Seiko never intended those mainsprings to leave the barrel, they were meant to be swapped barrel complete during service, so there's no specific winder made for them.

If you want to look into more expensive winders I unfortunately don't have any info to share =(

 

 

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Just now, lexacat said:

Oh right, gotcha. Yeah exactly that, I have the cheap chinese set of winders that everyone hates. They are for specific calibres, and the Miyota 8200 winder works for Seiko 7xxx series.

Seiko never intended those mainsprings to leave the barrel, they were meant to be swapped barrel complete during service, so there's no specific winder made for them.

If you want to look into more expensive winders I unfortunately don't have any info to share =(

 

 

Ah gotcha. those things working for you? 
And yeah i got a feeling even though i can find NOS 7006 barrel completes for the thing the oil in them is probably all dried up. Plus it's time i learn how to service the things anyways.

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I got my set for $70 AUD, which is just ridiculous for a set of 10 winders.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004895035484.html?spm=a2g0o.order_list.order_list_main.149.21ef1802i3V3W7

They have steel arbors so shouldn't wear too badly. Honestly, for what I do, they seem to work just fine. I've had trouble with the bridle on seiko automatic mainsprings, getting them into the winder is difficult and I've broken a few. But that's not the winders fault.

Maybe keep a few mainsprings spare just in case.

 

 

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17 minutes ago, lexacat said:

I got my set for $70 AUD, which is just ridiculous for a set of 10 winders.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004895035484.html?spm=a2g0o.order_list.order_list_main.149.21ef1802i3V3W7

They have steel arbors so shouldn't wear too badly. Honestly, for what I do, they seem to work just fine. I've had trouble with the bridle on seiko automatic mainsprings, getting them into the winder is difficult and I've broken a few. But that's not the winders fault.

Maybe keep a few mainsprings spare just in case.

 

 

Dang, that's tempting. It doesn't really designate whether this is left or right handed though? Iirc most movements are right handed but most seikos are left handed

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This PDF from the British Horological Institute that outlines details of common mainspring winders, including the cheap chinese set.

https://bhi.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/HJ-Mainspring-Winders.pdf

The Citizen/Miyota 8200 winder is left handed:

image.png.616b666bd2f6e835468b226270f383a7.png

 

You might actually be able to use that document to track down a more suitable winder for that barrel, although honestly the 8200 works just fine.

EDIT: I just had a quick dig through, there's no left winding set that's close to the same crank dia. and barrel OD, so from what I can tell the miyota 8200 in the cheap chinese set might be the best bet.

 

I've been wondering if if would be possible to us a right winder to wind the spring, then place the mainspring into a correctly sized washer. Then simply flip the washer to install in the correct direction in the barrel. That would work but might take some practise.

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11 minutes ago, lexacat said:

This PDF from the British Horological Institute that outlines details of common mainspring winders, including the cheap chinese set.

https://bhi.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/HJ-Mainspring-Winders.pdf

The Citizen/Miyota 8200 winder is left handed:

image.png.616b666bd2f6e835468b226270f383a7.png

 

You might actually be able to use that document to track down a more suitable winder for that barrel, although honestly the 8200 works just fine.

EDIT: I just had a quick dig through, there's no left winding set that's close to the same crank dia. and barrel OD, so from what I can tell the miyota 8200 in the cheap chinese set might be the best bet.

 

I've been wondering if if would be possible to us a right winder to wind the spring, then place the mainspring into a correctly sized washer. Then simply flip the washer to install in the correct direction in the barrel. That would work but might take some practise.

I guess i'm confused at how the chinese ones work. They look like copies of the bergeon one but in the graphic it shows they only come with one handle. The bergeon ones have two handles, one for right and one for left handed movements and some of the winders and arbors are also right or left handed so they have to be paired with the correct handle. I find the whole mainspring winder thing confusing tbh.

I've seen charts before and i find it strange they list a tiny handful of movements. No movement i've ever worked on is in one of those charts lol

Edited by Birbdad
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Yeah I get that! All of this has been fairly confusing for me too, to be honest.

This chinese set comes with one handle per winder. Each handle is either left or right handed and has a crank diameter that matches the calibre it's created for. The diamater of the winder body matches the barrel for the calibre. So each winder is made to specifically fit the barrel and arbor dimensions, as well as the winding direction for a specific calibre.

Fortunately there are a lot of commonalities across different manufacturers, in our case miyota/citizen and seiko. Plus the 8200 would match anything in the miyota 82xx family, for example the ubiquitous 8215. 

That said, a good bergeon winder with a left winding handle and a barrel OD that matches the seiko 7xxx calibre might not be impossible to locate. Esslinger sell a single left handed 9.8mm Bergeon winder for $73USD that would suit. Also a 10.8mm that might be a better match but you'd want to measure the barrel to be sure.

If I ever wear out the 8200 mainspring winder I'll know I use it enough to warrant replacing it with a bergeon. That said, for less than the price of that single Bergeon winder you can get the chinese set that we know works for your 7006 and several other calibres. 

It really comes down to how much you want to spend vs. the quality and longevity of the tools.

 

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1 hour ago, lexacat said:

Yeah I get that! All of this has been fairly confusing for me too, to be honest.

This chinese set comes with one handle per winder. Each handle is either left or right handed and has a crank diameter that matches the calibre it's created for. The diamater of the winder body matches the barrel for the calibre. So each winder is made to specifically fit the barrel and arbor dimensions, as well as the winding direction for a specific calibre.

Fortunately there are a lot of commonalities across different manufacturers, in our case miyota/citizen and seiko. Plus the 8200 would match anything in the miyota 82xx family, for example the ubiquitous 8215. 

That said, a good bergeon winder with a left winding handle and a barrel OD that matches the seiko 7xxx calibre might not be impossible to locate. Esslinger sell a single left handed 9.8mm Bergeon winder for $73USD that would suit. Also a 10.8mm that might be a better match but you'd want to measure the barrel to be sure.

If I ever wear out the 8200 mainspring winder I'll know I use it enough to warrant replacing it with a bergeon. That said, for less than the price of that single Bergeon winder you can get the chinese set that we know works for your 7006 and several other calibres. 

It really comes down to how much you want to spend vs. the quality and longevity of the tools.

 

Somebody told me the size for the 7s26. It would take me a bit to find it again.  I did see a post saying it has the same size mainspring as the 7006
As a group effort we should really assemble a massive list of every known caliber people have worked on and what mainspring winder size it uses.

Edited by Birbdad
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I'll grab my calipers in a sec and check the ID of the mainspring barrel for a 7xxx series, they're all the same I believe.

Looks to be 10.6mm, so I'd say any left handed winder with an OD of around 9.5mm - 10.5mm would be ideal.

Of course the crank diamater on the winder handle can't be too large or too small either.... 

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44 minutes ago, lexacat said:

I'll grab my calipers in a sec and check the ID of the mainspring barrel for a 7xxx series, they're all the same I believe.

Looks to be 10.6mm, so I'd say any left handed winder with an OD of around 9.5mm - 10.5mm would be ideal.

Of course the crank diamater on the winder handle can't be too large or too small either.... 

Awesome thanks! I'll post what the other guy told me see if it matches up. 
Since i got you here though, what is the grease used as breaking grease typically inside the barrel? 

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Moebius 8217 is the go to for the walls of an automatic barrel. Just 4 dabs equidistant around the barrel. 

In regards to the spring itself I put a small amount of d5 (or hp1300) on it after installing and let it sink in. Just a tiny amount to help prevent wear but not actual provide slippage. 

Not sure if it's entirely required, I got that idea from a YouTube video about automatic mainspring lubricating. I'm sure there's better options and opinions for lubricating the mainspring itself. 

But yeah, if you just hit the walls with 8217 you'll be alright. 

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11 hours ago, lexacat said:

Moebius 8217 is the go to for the walls of an automatic barrel. Just 4 dabs equidistant around the barrel. 

In regards to the spring itself I put a small amount of d5 (or hp1300) on it after installing and let it sink in. Just a tiny amount to help prevent wear but not actual provide slippage. 

Not sure if it's entirely required, I got that idea from a YouTube video about automatic mainspring lubricating. I'm sure there's better options and opinions for lubricating the mainspring itself. 

But yeah, if you just hit the walls with 8217 you'll be alright. 

Interesting, as far as the mainsprint itself i mostly see people using 9010 on it, just a little glaze wiped onto it from a piece of watchmakers paper. And 8217, thanks! 
Currently the only thing i've not serviced in a watch is the barrel because it seriously hurts to drop almost 200 bucks on one tool but i'm thinking of getting serious about watchmaking so I guess it's time to start accumulating tools.

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Ok, I got this guy disassembled. I really like just about everything i see! The dial is in even better condition than i thought. I've not seen one of these this nice looking. It's got a bit of microcracking/patina and i like that. There's 2 lume pips missing but that's something i'll save for later, i would like to replace them. ANybody here who's familiar with seiko or a pro i would appreciate your guidance.

The stem appears to be bent but at the end. I'm assuming just tape covered pliers and a pin vice is pretty standard for straightening something like this out? the gasket on it was literally a rock. I had to chip away at it with an xacto to get it off.
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The case back gasket however is still soft and flexible. Considering it goes in this little cavity does it make sense that it SHOULD be an O ring? I always see those when there's a cavity for them. Or is this one probably correct and i should just match it?
PXL_20230213_093358984.thumb.jpg.567a6bf730d5e0e30b785dc0b9a4ea8c.jpg 
This thing is FILTHY! Whoever worked on it before was smoking crack or something. There's way too much oil in places where there doesn't need to be any oil like under screws and all that oil has turned into glue. I literally couldn't get the train bridge off so many pivots were stuck to it. THe pallet fork was totally glued into it's bridge. Would it be safe to just soak this stuff in naptha for a day to deal with a lot of it before i hand clean and then run it through my cleaner? I"m surprised how much plating is missing from the edges of some of the plates. What friction would do that? ALso a previous guy was using things that were literally gouging out metal from brass posts here and there. It all looks like it should function properly though.
PXL_20230213_102100658.thumb.jpg.3bb5313c0447cac46461379285b4ba72.jpg
This is disconcerting. ANother day another seiko balance spring that's not centered. Do they ALL end up like this? If anybody can tell me where i should try adjusting it that would be helpful. I got a couple to practice on first and it's time to learn this. Honestly i'm not even sure how you would do that as i have no idea how to remove the thing because it doesn't use an etachron. Does this balance look usable slightly off centered like this?
PXL_20230213_104434177.thumb.jpg.08bfff4229e5c3ae14f223dfbac1cb2b.jpg
PXL_20230213_113219084.thumb.jpg.263c186bf44c70820e6552e630a6c1ae.jpg 

Other than the off center balance spring it's all good news and it makes me so happy. Every wheel,pivot and jewel looks perfect and i'm basically certain it just needs a VERY good cleaning and a service.  

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13 minutes ago, lexacat said:

It's an evening wear watch.

 

Nah I dunno.

I had to double check to see if the other models from thsi line had and they all do so this isn't a dial swap from some gmt. That is SO strange. I can't for the life of me think of a good reason to do that.

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I would maybe de-magnetise the balance before doing any straightening work on it, just in case it's a magnetisation issue. 

That thing was absolutely floating in oil, but I suppose that's somewhat helpful for rust prevention... 

In regards to wear through the edge of bridges and plates, that's usually explained by loose rotor bearings. Otherwise I dunno, it's like some of these movements have been dragged behind a car. Probably years sitting in a parts bin in Mumbai?

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7 hours ago, lexacat said:

I would maybe de-magnetise the balance before doing any straightening work on it, just in case it's a magnetisation issue. 

That thing was absolutely floating in oil, but I suppose that's somewhat helpful for rust prevention... 

In regards to wear through the edge of bridges and plates, that's usually explained by loose rotor bearings. Otherwise I dunno, it's like some of these movements have been dragged behind a car. Probably years sitting in a parts bin in Mumbai?

There's no way this was a mumbai special. I think at least one of the people who had dug around in this thing in the past had no idea what they were doing and were maybe trying to use a screwdriver connected to a drill or something? I can't explain the gouges on osme of the brass posts.  Only the outter edges of the bridges seem to have the plating worn off so maybe at some point in the past the owner was wearing it when the rotor had come loose. It's hard to say.  

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