My first true project watch. Really nice condition vintage Seiko 7006a. Non running.

[Birbdad]

11 hours ago, aac58 said:

Usually I look for part numbers on Cousins (https://www.cousinsuk.com/category/filter/search-seiko-case-parts) and/or Boley (https://boley.de/, just write the watch model in the search box)

In this particular case, I had to look for the Sternkreuz equivalent in the SK catalog.

wow i had no idea cousins had that functionality. I always search there after i sleuth out the parts numbers to see if they have them. 
And yeah i saw that added blurb about the sternkreuz sizing catalog after i made that post. Now i know!

[LittleWatchShop]

On 2/20/2023 at 12:47 AM, lexacat said:

I keep all screws separated in labeled bags, e.g. "pallet cock screw", "barrel bridge screws" etc, so I know where each one lives.

Yes, absolutely.  Here is how I keep track. Once I take a picture, I know which screw goes with associated plate...and...

On 2/20/2023 at 12:47 AM, lexacat said:

Unless absolutely necessary I don't clean the screws, so there's no chance of losing them in the wash or getting them mixed up.

Hearty AMEN!  Since the screws remain in their compartment and the picture associates the plate, there is never confusion.

My bin is printed with my 3D printer.  Never seen a commercial solution that I much cared for.

On 2/20/2023 at 12:47 AM, lexacat said:

• I don't put tiny parts in the wash, things like tiny circlips etc that can get easily lost, or anything I think will slip through. If they need a clean I'll individually drop them in some naptha or alcohol to remove oils and grease.
• I leave all cap/shock jewels attached during the wash. Once I start putting everything together I take them out and clean them one at a time.

Amen: We are brothers from a different mother!

Edited February 28, 2023 by LittleWatchShop

[Birbdad]

So onward a bit tonight! Good news and bad news.
The good news is that all the power train wheels are spinning freely beautifully and it's as smooth as butter.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/cg76bpep4acjyyi/PXL_20230301_132347131.mp4?dl=0
The bad news is as you can see if i wind up the mainspring it sluggishly uncoils taking several minutes for the last bit of movement. Cleaning the 20 year old glue that the oil had become in this thing off was a royal pain in the ass and it looks like things inside the barrel won't be much of an improvement when my mainspring winders  and breaking grease arrive.

Still really like what i see so far. HOpefully the mainspring is in good shape. I can clearly see the barrel been opened by somebody very stupid judging from the gouges and scratches on it.

Edited March 1, 2023 by Birbdad

[LittleWatchShop]

13 minutes ago, Birbdad said:

mainspring winders

I noticed something while servicing my recent Seiko.  The mainspring pretty much fills the barrel.  As a result, I found it to be challenging to set the diameter of the winding tool large enough to fit in the barrel AND have the mainspring fit inside the winder when coiled.  I do not recall this problem on my previous Seiko of similar vintage.  Anyway, I ended up breaking the first one during installation.  The bridle (which is two cladded pieces) was so stiff that it bent the mainspring--could not be salvaged.  Fortunately, I had a spare.

Just a heads up.  Maybe @thor447can comment about this as he is a seasoned Seiko aficionado.

[Birbdad]

5 minutes ago, LittleWatchShop said:

I noticed something while servicing my recent Seiko.  The mainspring pretty much fills the barrel.  As a result, I found it to be challenging to set the diameter of the winding tool large enough to fit in the barrel AND have the mainspring fit inside the winder when coiled.  I do not recall this problem on my previous Seiko of similar vintage.  Anyway, I ended up breaking the first one during installation.  The bridle (which is two cladded pieces) was so stiff that it bent the mainspring--could not be salvaged.  Fortunately, I had a spare.

Just a heads up.  Maybe @thor447can comment about this as he is a seasoned Seiko aficionado.

Do you use the chinese ones or bergeon? Maybe your sizing isn't quite right on your winder?
That said anybody that can chime in with any tips for a noob and caveats to keep in mind for somebody using one of the things for the first tiem would be great. I am getting the bergeon one. 

One thing i'd love to know is if the 7006 uses the same mainspring as the 7s26? I know there's been some changes to the arbor pivots but if they use the same mainspring i probably have a half dozen spares.

[LittleWatchShop]

13 minutes ago, Birbdad said:

Do you use the chinese ones or bergeon?

I use vintage K&D winders like the one in this picture (snagged from the internet).  I have four styles of winders which I inherited, but this one is my favorite.  Not perfect...as no tool is, I suppose.

[thor447]

3 hours ago, LittleWatchShop said:

I noticed something while servicing my recent Seiko.  The mainspring pretty much fills the barrel.  As a result, I found it to be challenging to set the diameter of the winding tool large enough to fit in the barrel AND have the mainspring fit inside the winder when coiled.  I do not recall this problem on my previous Seiko of similar vintage.  Anyway, I ended up breaking the first one during installation.  The bridle (which is two cladded pieces) was so stiff that it bent the mainspring--could not be salvaged.  Fortunately, I had a spare.

Just a heads up.  Maybe @thor447can comment about this as he is a seasoned Seiko aficionado.

I've run into that same issue.  Generally, I have found that most older Seiko's can use either a 5, 6, or 7 Bergeon winder, but some will just not fit like @LittleWatchShop suggested.  If I am not installing a new mainspring, which many times I am, I will just install those by hand - carefully of course, haha!

Edited March 1, 2023 by thor447

[Birbdad]

6 hours ago, thor447 said:

I've run into that same issue.  Generally, I have found that most older Seiko's can use either a 5, 6, or 7 Bergeon winder, but some will just not fit like @LittleWatchShop suggested.  If I am not installing a new mainspring, which many times I am, I will just install those by hand - carefully of course, haha!

I know they can use the same size winder but do you know if the 7s26 and 7006 use the same mainspring?

[thor447]

23 minutes ago, Birbdad said:

I know they can use the same size winder but do you know if the 7s26 and 7006 use the same mainspring?

They do, as long as you have a 7S26A.  The following movements all share the same 'barrel complete', which means they all have the same barrel, arbor, and mainspring:

[Birbdad]

4 minutes ago, thor447 said:

They do, as long as you have a 7S26A.  The following movements all share the same 'barrel complete', which means they all have the same barrel, arbor, and mainspring:

Ok...so i might have one or two backup mainsprings. Thanks!

10 hours ago, LittleWatchShop said:

I use vintage K&D winders like the one in this picture (snagged from the internet).  I have four styles of winders which I inherited, but this one is my favorite.  Not perfect...as no tool is, I suppose.

Interesting. never heard of it.

[lexacat]

Buy a brand new 7s26a barrel complete and throw that in there. No muss, no fuss.

https://www.spareparts-watches.com/product/6033272/201-024-201-075-barrel-and-mainspring-seiko-7005a-seiko-7006a-seiko-7s26a-seiko-7s26b

[Birbdad]

1 hour ago, lexacat said:

Buy a brand new 7s26a barrel complete and throw that in there. No muss, no fuss.

https://www.spareparts-watches.com/product/6033272/201-024-201-075-barrel-and-mainspring-seiko-7005a-seiko-7006a-seiko-7s26a-seiko-7s26b

is a good idea but i'm here to learn. I'm really thinking about going to horology school and i've never serviced a mainspring and barrel before. I also can order NOS balance completes for this thing but i've never adjusted a hairspring before. Time to learn that too. 

Heck i saw an NOS dial for this thing for like 70 bucks. This one is missing two lume pips. Seems like a good reason to get some luminous stuff and replace the two that are missing.

Once i finish this i'll be pretty proficient in every aspect of servicing a 3 hand day/date movement and i can start moving onto more complicated stuff.

Edited March 2, 2023 by Birbdad

[lexacat]

Fair enough too! I've destoyed probably 5 mainsprings so far learning. The original seiko automatic mainsprings have a reversed bridle which is a real pain to get into the winder barrel. If you go too far it's not easy to reverse course, and by then almost the whole spring is in the barrel under tension.

I'd practise on an old mainspring a bunch of times to see how you go before trying to wind a good one.

[Waggy]

I agree with the above, I have a Bergeon mainspring winder (left hand) for Seikos (7009/7S26) and I have about a 30% success rate re-winding the mainsprings, on a good day. One of the following seems to happen:

• Mainspring bunches up inside the winder and then pushes up the arbor washer and/or bursts out
• Can't slide the spring off the arbor and the spring bursts out
• Had one occasion where the bridal went right instead of left when winding and curled the wrong way
• The bridal sits higher in the winder than the rest of the spring and when placed into the barrel will:
  • Burst out
  • remains sitting high (or completely out of the barrel) so that I cant get the barrel cap/lid on

If any of the above happens there is a better than 50% chance that the spring is then unusable - commence swearing and stamping feet! I have found that putting the spring in by hand gives me a much higher chance of success, then I can curse my decision to buy the expensive winders!

Anyone else have a better success rate? I do fine with any other types of springs - does anyone else have any hints or tips with re-winding Seiko springs (apart from don't)?

[Birbdad]

Wow this is wild. I've watched a ton of videos on the bergeon mainspring winders and i never really see anybody mention how problematic they are. 

I hope i don't have this much trouble..it looks pretty straight forward.

[Waggy]

They work well with every spring I have tried, after a little practice, except the Seiko springs, I think it has something to do with the reverse bridal thing?? Or maybe I'm missing a trick?

Here is a link if you go down the wind by hand road:

 

Edited March 2, 2023 by Waggy

[Birbdad]

Just now, Waggy said:

They work well with every spring I have tried, after a little practice, except the Seiko springs, I think it has something to do with the reverse bridal thing?? Or maybe I'm missing a trick?

@aac58
@thor447
You guys got any tips for us on winding seiko springs without destroying them?

[Neverenoughwatches]

16 minutes ago, Birbdad said:

@aac58
@thor447
You guys got any tips for us on winding seiko springs without destroying them?

This video is good Colin. Mike is a great guy and something of a Seiko aficionado, he also has his own forum group ( not as good as ours obviously) and will personally answer questions you have when he has time.

[aac58]

29 minutes ago, Birbdad said:

@aac58
@thor447
You guys got any tips for us on winding seiko springs without destroying them?

Do you mean by hand? I don't do it anymore. Sometimes you know that you've toasted it, the rest of the times you don't know if you've toasted it.

[Birbdad]

Just now, aac58 said:

Do you mean by hand? I don't do it anymore. Sometimes you know that you've toasted it, the rest of the times you don't know if you've toasted it.

Nah with a proper bergeon winder. Mine should be here in a week or so from cousins.

12 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

This video is good Colin. Mike is a great guy and something of a Seiko aficionado, he also has his own forum group ( not as good as ours obviously) and will personally answer questions you have when he has time.

Which video?

[aac58]

5 minutes ago, Birbdad said:

Nah with a proper bergeon winder. Mine should be here in a week or so from cousins.

It's true that due to how the bridle on the Seiko MS are installed (welded on the side closer to the end of the spring) you have to be more carefull when winding it into the winder than in this video:

Also as I mentioned previously, you have to be sure that the MS hole is inserted into the arbor hook, do not take the spring all the way into de arbor because then it won't be catched by the hook.

Edited March 2, 2023 by aac58

[Birbdad]

6 minutes ago, aac58 said:

It's true that due to how the bridle on the Seiko MS are installed (welded on the side closer to the end of the spring) you have to be more carefull when winding it into the winder than in this video:

 

Yeah i've seen mark's and most of the other vids. I'm just wondering if there's anything else i need to know before going in with seikos as waggy is not the only person that works on seikos that's mentioned to me how often seiko  springs get destroyed.

[Neverenoughwatches]

3 hours ago, Birbdad said:

Nah with a proper bergeon winder. Mine should be here in a week or so from cousins.

Which video?

The video that waggy posted for you a few hours ago. Mike at my retro watches. He also  has a forum group. He is a big fan of Seiko watches and has repaired many and broken a few in his time. Might be worth reaching out to him in his group, another experienced view to consider. 

[Birbdad]

23 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

The video that waggy posted for you a few hours ago. Mike at my retro watches. He also  has a forum group. He is a big fan of Seiko watches and has repaired many and broken a few in his time. Might be worth reaching out to him in his group, another experienced view to consider. 

 Oh the one by hand. I thought you were posting a video and forgot the link. Yeah i saw that some time ago but Mark and so many other pros kept saying that trying to repack a mainspring by hand is just asking to ruin your barrel and cause issues over time. 

I guess i'll just to mess with the winder when i get it. I do have a damaged mainspring from a pile of junk parts in a barrel that i can't even get the arbor in, i'll probably practice with that. In fact i'd wager it's probably a victim of trying to pack the mainspring by hand.

[Neverenoughwatches]

5 hours ago, Waggy said:

I have found that putting the spring in by hand gives me a much higher chance of success, then I can curse my decision to buy the expensive winders!

Anyone else have a better success rate? I do fine with any other types of springs - does anyone else have any hints or tips with re-winding Seiko springs (apart from don't)?

Eyup waggy. I do have a different method of winding by hand. After watching Mike's video i would say a little safer and less likely to contaminate the spring. It involves holding the barrel in a vice/movement holder and a doglegged needle in a pinvice to wind the spring. The method still needs 2 hands to start the spring but once a couple of coils are in the barrel the rest is straight forward.

5 minutes ago, Birbdad said:

Mark and so many other pros kept saying that trying to repack a mainspring by hand is just asking to ruin your barrel and cause issues over time. 

It is a last resort, based on waggy's post with winder issues.