Yaay! 3L Ultrasonic Cleaner ARRIVED

[Gramham]

Hello Everyone,

(please forgive my excitement over what must seem a rather mundane piece of equipment for those of you who already have one)

My 3L Ultrasonic cleaner has arrived, so I can finally start blasting the grime, dirt and wrist cheese off of cases and bracelets!  Yaay!  Does anyone have any experience with similar model(s)?  Any model-specific tips?  Of course, I have been watching some YouTube videos about how to use these devices...but any suggestions or additional "secret ultrasonic lore" is more than welcome!

Attached is a bunch of pictures I took to document the delivery, in case there was any transit damage (there wasn't).  I plan to fire it up later on today (or perhaps tomorrow) and test it on a bunch of grimy, rusty stuff that's been lying on the outdoor workbench...in closed, separate glass containers of course, so as not to contaminate the chamber!

g.

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[Paul80]

It looks almost identical to mine, except the label on mine is green

Check the heater works, mine didn't.

What cleaning fluids are you planning on using, I use the Elma Red with good results but may try L&R Ultrasonic if I ever win the lottery

Edited August 16, 2022 by Paul80

[Gramham]

Hello @Paul80,

Great hearing from you!  OK, will be checking the heater right away.

The unit arrived with a Chinese-only user manual, so I spent a little time today writing up an English version.  I wonder if anyone would be interested in taking a look and making sure I got everything right?  Is there any "Ultrasonic Cleaner Lore" that I should be including?

 

Ultrasonic-Cleaner-Manual-2022-08-17-Adocx.pdfFetching info...

[dadistic]

Looks exactly the same has mine. Mine has been a real workhorse. My heater works, but it is slow. Running the ultrasonic adds as much heat as just using the heater

The only tip I have is to make sure that there is plenty water in the tank when you run it, as I believe if you run it when dry the transducer may overheat, as it uses the water in the tack to cool. (see above).

Cheers!

[tomh207]

Got the 2L version, wish I had gone bigger. It’s been really good for me and done a great job of all I have asked of it so far.

 

Tom

[Gramham]

  On 8/17/2022 at 7:37 PM, dadistic said:

Looks exactly the same has mine. Mine has been a real workhorse. My heater works, but it is slow. Running the ultrasonic adds as much heat as just using the heater

The only tip I have is to make sure that there is plenty water in the tank when you run it, as I believe if you run it when dry the transducer may overheat, as it uses the water in the tack to cool. (see above).

Cheers!

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Hello @dadistic,

I have amended the instructions (attached)...do you think it's enough?



g.
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  On 8/16/2022 at 6:47 AM, Paul80 said:

It looks almost identical to mine, except the label on mine is green

Check the heater works, mine didn't.

What cleaning fluids are you planning on using, I use the Elma Red with good results but may try L&R Ultrasonic if I ever win the lottery

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@Paul80,

I don't know if you are handy (though as a Watchmaking fan you likely are), but the way I'd troubleshoot that is to UNPLUG the unit, open it up and check the resistance of the heating element (which is probably 100W) to see if its resistance is infinite (broken heating element) or really low (like  under 10 Ohms).  If you can get a measurable (but low) resistance then the issue is likely elsewhere in the circuit (maybe a fuse).  Here's a little discussion from Quora about heating element resistance levels and how their resistance changes when they go from "cold" to "hot":

 

g.
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Edited August 18, 2022 by Gramham
Added image

[JohnFrum]

My 1L version (DK Sonic branded) should be arriving tomorrow: 55W, 42 kHz.  No heater element installed.

Planning to use 1oz jam jars filled with my cleaning solutions: laboratory grade Petroleum Ether (Naptha), anhydrous 2-Propanol (IPA) and Hexane (for pallet fork and balance.)

 

[Gramham]

  On 8/18/2022 at 1:25 AM, JohnFrum said:

My 1L version (DK Sonic branded) should be arriving tomorrow: 55W, 42 kHz.  No heater element installed.

Planning to use 1oz jam jars filled with my cleaning solutions: laboratory grade Petroleum Ether (Naptha), anhydrous 2-Propanol (IPA) and Hexane (for pallet fork and balance.)

 

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Hello @JohnFrum,

May I use your consumables list in the Operating Manual that I'm developing please?

g.
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Hello Everyone,

ULTRASONIC CLEANER SOLVENTS

Does anyone have any "recipes" for ultrasonic cleaning solvents?  

So far, I have seen the following consumables mentioned:



...are there any more you recommend or steer away from? 

For example, I saw mention of certain solvents potentially dissolving jewel mount shellac!  Wow, that would suck!


ULTRASONIC CLEANER APPLICATIONS

What about appropriate and inappropriate applications of ultrasonic cleaners?

1)  I notice on CHRONOGLIDE that it is strongly advised not to use ultrasonic cleaners on movements.

2)  I notice on RICHARD PERRIN that he routinely uses an ultrasonic cleaner on movements, including expensive ones.

Experts, what say you about this?

g.
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Edited August 18, 2022 by Gramham
typo

[Neverenoughwatches]

  On 8/18/2022 at 1:30 AM, Gramham said:

For example, I saw mention of certain solvents potentially dissolving jewel mount shellac!  Wow, that would suck!

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That would be the Ipa graham, and yes it does

[nickelsilver]

  On 8/18/2022 at 1:30 AM, Gramham said:

ULTRASONIC CLEANER APPLICATIONS

What about appropriate and inappropriate applications of ultrasonic cleaners?

1)  I notice on CHRONOGLIDE that it is strongly advised not to use ultrasonic cleaners on movements.

2)  I notice on RICHARD PERRIN that he routinely uses an ultrasonic cleaner on movements, including expensive ones.

Experts, what say you about this?

g.
----

Expand  

Ulatrasonics have been used for watch movement cleaning for more than 60 years. I have no idea why Chronoglide says not to use it. I know he shows the aluminum foil test at some point, where the US will perforate the foil if properly powerful- in 25 years of only using ultrasonic machines I have never seen damage and never heard of damage from the many watchmakers I know. The Watchmaster cleaning machines were only ultrasonic, no agitation, and my old Greiner Ultrason U2 is ultrasonic, no agitation, and uses isopropyl alcohol as the rinse for the water based cleaner that machine uses. Lititz Precision Products makes a professional modern version of the Watchmaster (their Matador machine) currently.

 

Isopropyl will dissolve shellac, in time. In a minute or two it won't. Water based cleaners will not rust steel parts (someone will say they do), as long as they are rinsed and dried correctly. Drying parts cleaned/rinsed in solvent based cleaner in room temperature air can easily cause rust, due to condensation on the parts as they cool from evaporation.

 

 

[Neverenoughwatches]

  On 8/18/2022 at 10:21 AM, nickelsilver said:

Ulatrasonics have been used for watch movement cleaning for more than 60 years. I have no idea why Chronoglide says not to use it. I know he shows the aluminum foil test at some point, where the US will perforate the foil if properly powerful- in 25 years of only using ultrasonic machines I have never seen damage and never heard of damage from the many watchmakers I know. The Watchmaster cleaning machines were only ultrasonic, no agitation, and my old Greiner Ultrason U2 is ultrasonic, no agitation, and uses isopropyl alcohol as the rinse for the water based cleaner that machine uses. Lititz Precision Products makes a professional modern version of the Watchmaster (their Matador machine) currently.

 

Isopropyl will dissolve shellac, in time. In a minute or two it won't. Water based cleaners will not rust steel parts (someone will say they do), as long as they are rinsed and dried correctly. Drying parts cleaned/rinsed in solvent based cleaner in room temperature air can easily cause rust, due to condensation on the parts as they cool from evaporation.

 

 

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I did have a bad experience from a waterbased cleaner but that wasnt a professional product. I didnt know any bettet at the time and copied a youtuber's method, also maybe didnt dry quickly enough or throughly enough. Ive started to use a very small slow cooker to dry watch parts not inc. the pallet fork or balance wheel.  On low the temperature is around 60 degree Celsius. Also with  a little air from a puffer to disperse any excess rinse. It seems to work ok.

[JohnFrum]

A couple of youtubers have recommended a food dehydrator for drying parts. 

[dadistic]

Hairdryer or heat gun. Just be careful.

Cheers!

[gbyleveldt]

  On 8/18/2022 at 9:15 PM, JohnFrum said:

A couple of youtubers have recommended a food dehydrator for drying parts. 

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When I still used water as a rinse, this worked fantastic. I’ve got a dryer used for drying brass casings after cleaning them in a tumbler.

  On 8/18/2022 at 11:04 PM, dadistic said:

Hairdryer or heat gun. Just be careful.

Cheers!

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I was always worried this would be either too hot or too much air pressure so never tried it myself.

[Neverenoughwatches]

  On 8/19/2022 at 1:15 AM, gbyleveldt said:

 

I was always worried this would be either too hot or too much air pressure so never tried it myself.

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Yep, please dont lol. Another bad experience for me. Although this was with a hairdryer trying to dry the case that still had the crystal and bezel on a diver. The crystal wasn't so much an issue as replacable the bezel insert was a different story. I will say i was over enthusiastic and also in a rush as i was going out. But besides my hard learned mistake the parts would need to be contained if using a hairdryer. A heatgun not sure what we talking about here, a paint stripper ? i am thinking just a tad overkill lol. You can get mini heatguns that come as an addition on soldering stations for reworking joints, a safer downsized option to consider but still maybe overkill ?.  I would say gentle heat with gentle air circulation is all that is required. A speeded up rushed approach never ends well. 

  On 8/18/2022 at 11:04 PM, dadistic said:

Hairdryer or heat gun. Just be careful.

Cheers!

Expand  

Definitely be careful

[Gramham]

Hello Everyone,

What about this?

[dadistic]

I hold the basket with the parts in it in my hand. If the heat from the heat gun is cool enough for my hand, it's cool enough for the watch parts. 

The heat gun I have was originally purchased years ago for shrinking balsa wood model airplane covering material, but I'm sure similar is available today. If you happen to have access to an industrial one, it would work,  just have to be carefull with the settings.  Not the soldering station kind, this kind, my setup is below too.

 

[Neverenoughwatches]

  On 8/19/2022 at 3:20 AM, Gramham said:

Hello Everyone,

What about this?

Expand  

? Its a warning not to use thin or fragile materials in the ultrasonic machine that this warning label is attached to.

  On 8/19/2022 at 3:36 AM, dadistic said:

I hold the basket with the parts in it in my hand. If the heat from the heat gun is cool enough for my hand, it's cool enough for the watch parts. 

The heat gun I have was originally purchased years ago for shrinking balsa wood model airplane covering material, but I'm sure similar is available today. If you happen to have access to an industrial one, it would work,  just have to be carefull with the settings.  Not the soldering station kind, this kind, my setup is below too.

 

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Contained parts . Is it a low wattage heatgun ?

[Gramham]

  On 8/19/2022 at 3:49 AM, Neverenoughwatches said:

? Its a warning not to use thin or fragile materials in the ultrasonic machine that this warning label is attached to.

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Hello @Neverenoughwatches,

That warning does not appear in any labeling on my unit:

What I am attempting to do is write an English manual for my unit, seeing as the original manual is in Chinese.  



Sorry for the confusion! 

That said, ChronoGlide did say this to My Retro Watches in the discussion thread attached to his Ultrasonic Cleaner video:



g.
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Edited August 19, 2022 by Gramham
Added photos

[Neverenoughwatches]

  On 8/19/2022 at 3:57 AM, Gramham said:

Hello @Neverenoughwatches,

That warning does not appear in any labeling on my unit.  What I am attempting to do is write an English manual for my unit, seeing as the original manual is in Chinese.  Sorry for the confusion.

That said, ChronoGlide did say this to My Retro Watches in the discussion thread attached to his Ultrasonic Cleaner video:



g.
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Eyup G . I imagine the grey area lays somewhere between an expensive well known and well made brand and a cheap generic brand costing a tenth of the price. The sonic cleaner i have is similar to yours with a heater and 2 vibration settings which cost me about 50 gbp. Very cheap for an appliance known to do a good job of cleaning watch parts, this compared to a rotation wash costing thousands. What can we expect from it ? The one i have has not done any damage to movement parts as yet, that being said i always use the softer setting. The more aggressive setting is very obvious audibly.  I used to use the aggressive setting to clean the bracelets and cases until i noticed quite heavy pit marks around the back and lugs. The case may have had partial wear in these areas and the heavier setting dislodged or ate into the brass base metal ?. So some thought as to the durability of anything placed into the cleaner should be given. I wont be using the aggressive setting again unless I'm sure the item to be cleaned is  robust enough to withstand it, stainless steel i think would be fine. 

[Gramham]

  On 8/19/2022 at 4:26 AM, Neverenoughwatches said:

Eyup G . I imagine the grey area lays somewhere between an expensive well known and well made brand and a cheap generic brand costing a tenth of the price. The sonic cleaner i have is similar to yours with a heater and 2 vibration settings which cost me about 50 gbp. Very cheap for an appliance known to do a good job of cleaning watch parts, this compared to a rotation wash costing thousands. What can we expect from it ? The one i have has not done any damage to movement parts as yet, that being said i always use the softer setting. The more aggressive setting is very obvious audibly.  I used to use the aggressive setting to clean the bracelets and cases until i noticed quite heavy pit marks around the back and lugs. The case may have had partial wear in these areas and the heavier setting dislodged or ate into the brass base metal ?. So some thought as to the durability of anything placed into the cleaner should be given. I wont be using the aggressive setting again unless I'm sure the item to be cleaned is  robust enough to withstand it, stainless steel i think would be fine. 

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Hello @Neverenoughwatches

If this isn't the ideal situation for a set of controlled experiments I don't know what else could be  

I still have yet to set my unit up, and I don't know if it has a "gentle" mode or not. 

When I have set my unit up (soon) and become more familiar with its full suite of operations (less soon) and have a means of measuring pitting (even less soon - I don't have a microscope [yet]) then OBVIOUSLY it would be interesting to run some experiments to see what the physical manifestations (if any) of cavitation on various types and thicknesses of metals would be.  The combinatorial potential of the variables is pretty big (duration, power, material, media).

On the face of it, however, I do agree with you.  As a "Rule of Thumb", it would be prudent to not put expensive, tiny, thin or fragile things in such a physically violent (on a microscopic level) environment.

g.
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  On 8/18/2022 at 10:21 AM, nickelsilver said:

Ulatrasonics have been used for watch movement cleaning for more than 60 years. I have no idea why Chronoglide says not to use it. I know he shows the aluminum foil test at some point, where the US will perforate the foil if properly powerful- in 25 years of only using ultrasonic machines I have never seen damage and never heard of damage from the many watchmakers I know. The Watchmaster cleaning machines were only ultrasonic, no agitation, and my old Greiner Ultrason U2 is ultrasonic, no agitation, and uses isopropyl alcohol as the rinse for the water based cleaner that machine uses. Lititz Precision Products makes a professional modern version of the Watchmaster (their Matador machine) currently.

 

Isopropyl will dissolve shellac, in time. In a minute or two it won't. Water based cleaners will not rust steel parts (someone will say they do), as long as they are rinsed and dried correctly. Drying parts cleaned/rinsed in solvent based cleaner in room temperature air can easily cause rust, due to condensation on the parts as they cool from evaporation.

 

 

Expand  

@nickelsilver- Thank you! 

This is invaluable practice-based information for a nebie like me!  Wonderful!  Thanks once more.

...Chronoglide did retrospectively moderate his comments regarding ultrasonic cleaners and watch parts (somewhat):



g.
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[Neverenoughwatches]

  On 8/19/2022 at 4:43 AM, Gramham said:

watches

If this isn't the ideal situation for a set of controlled experiments

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Ahh G. You are talking my language matey. You cant beat a good experiment to discover for yourself exactly what is what

  On 8/19/2022 at 4:43 AM, Gramham said:

combinatorial

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Have you just made this word up ? I like it, do i have your permission to use it please ?  

  On 8/19/2022 at 4:43 AM, Gramham said:

Chronoglide did retrospectively moderate his comments regarding ultrasonic

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Back peddling lol. Thats not like our Kalle !

  On 8/19/2022 at 4:43 AM, Gramham said:

OBVIOUSLY it would be interesting to run some experiments to see what the physical manifestations (if any) of cavitation on various types and thicknesses of metals would be.  The combinatorial potential of the variables is pretty big (duration, power, material, media).

Expand  

 

  On 8/19/2022 at 4:43 AM, Gramham said:

the face of it, however, I do agree with you.  As a "Rule of Thumb", it would be prudent to not put expensive, tiny, thin or fragile things in such a physically violent (on a microscopic level) environment

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If its big chunky and solid its fine, if its thin weedy and pathetic looking then its not. This is my very rough, vague and grey area rule of thumb. Lol. Yes i have sound logic and sometimes good advice, but I'm also an idiot and a nutter and have been awake all night and its now six oclock in the morning so i expect understanding and tolerance from everyone today  

Edited August 19, 2022 by Neverenoughwatches

[Gramham]

  On 8/19/2022 at 5:02 AM, Neverenoughwatches said:

Ahh G. You are talking my language matey. You cant beat a good experiment to discover for yourself exactly what is what

Have you just made this word up ? I like it, do i have your permission to use it please ?  

Back peddling lol. Thats not like our Kalle !

 

If its big chunky and solid it fine, if its thin weedy and pathetic looking then its not. This is my very rough, vague and grey area rule of thumb. Lol. Yes i have sound login and sometimes good advice, but I'm also an idiot and a nutter and have been awake all night and its now six oclock in the morning so i expect understanding and tolerance from everyone today  

Expand  

[Neverenoughwatches]

  On 8/19/2022 at 5:32 AM, Gramham said:

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Lol thanks G. I wont be needing your permission to use it then ?

[Gramham]

  On 8/19/2022 at 5:39 AM, Neverenoughwatches said:

Lol thanks G. I wont be needing your permission to use it then ?

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@Neverenoughwatches,

Hahahahaha - of course you have my permission to use any and all of my confabulated, archaic, obscure and otherwise (to me at least) neat-o terminology!

g.
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Edited August 19, 2022 by Gramham
Typo