Repivoting - better alternative to staff sourcing and staff making ?

[Neverenoughwatches]

Ok so another crazy post. Only joking . Most watches that we are aquiring via ebay are tending to suffer from one of three things. Three things that stop beginners in their tracks. And these are the things i most want to learn even in my short learning span.  No. 1 issue- a broken balance staff pivot. No. 2 a missing or broken stem and No. 3 a shafted hairspring. So 1 and 2 is going to require a lathe, not a cheap item . But i managed a good one fully kitted out for 180 Betties, a very lucky find but patience paid off. And lastly No. 3 a hairspring vibrator required possibly, a more expensive item, harder to find and not something the missus should be toying with either. Pun unintended but hey it just came out that way so deal with it. This post is to ask a couple of questions regarding repivoting. Ive watched a few you vids on it so  i have a general idea what to do. The questioning is aimed mostly towards pros and their opinions on how well it works ?  how easy  is it to do ? and what sort of equipment and material is required ? Or is it just better to buy and fit a new staff, bearing in mind a staking set will be needed and thats providing a replacement staff is available. A full staff turning is almost definitely out of the question for the beginner, but I'm game after a few months of lathe practice and a new scope acquisition.  I will be asking about the stem manufacturing and the hairspring replacement in the future if thats ok. Thank you for any comments and advice in advance.  ( Nickelsilver )

[nickelsilver]

For a balance staff I find I'm as fast making a new one as repivoting; also, with repivoting there are several pitfalls that can turn the job sour and you're left with a useless staff, so you end up making it anyway. I would always make a full drawing before either. Technically, a properly done repivoting is as good as original, there's no reason it would fail or perform less well.

 

For trickier parts like a pinion, it is usually far faster and easier to repivot than remake.

9 hours ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

A full staff turning is almost definitely out of the question for the beginner, but I'm game after a few months of lathe practice and a new scope acquisition. 

Doing a correct repivoting of a balance staff isn't easier than making a whole staff, it's just possibly quicker, but in my experience not really unless it's an ultra high grade staff (or marine chronometer or something). Getting the staff running perfectly true to drill, drilling a truly concentric hole that is straight and to proper depth, making the plug with the correct friction fit, fitting the plug, then turning the plug to final size and form and length, finally finishing off in the Jacot*- there are a lot of skills wrapped up there.

 

*using the Jacot you really find out if your plug was fitted correctly!

Edited June 7, 2022 by nickelsilver

[Neverenoughwatches]

1 hour ago, nickelsilver said:

For a balance staff I find I'm as fast making a new one as repivoting; also, with repivoting there are several pitfalls that can turn the job sour and your're left with a useless staff, so you end up making it anyway. I would always make a full drawing before either. Technically, a properly done repivoting is as good as original, there's no reason it would fail or perform less well.

 

For trickier parts like a pinion, it is usually far faster and easier to repivot than remake.

Doing a correct repivoting of a balance staff isn't easier than making a whole staff, it's just possibly quicker, but in my experience not really unless it's an ultra high grade staff (or marine chronometer or something). Getting the staff running perfectly true to drill, drilling a truly concentric hole that is straight and to proper depth, making the plug with the correct friction fit, fitting the plug, then turning the plug to final size and form and length, finally finishing off in the Jacot*- there are a lot of skills wrapped up there.

 

*using the Jacot you really find out if your plug was fitted correctly!

Thanks Nicklesilver very informative and helpful as always. I would love to learn to do both  if at all possible, i was under an assumption that the repivot might have been a little easiler. I'm  expecting some heavy practicing and probably a few years down the line before i could turn out anything half decent, but i am patient, the skill will either come or it wont, if i dont try then it definitely wont. Thanks again.

[nevenbekriev]

Hi again here,

Old thread, but if still interessed in repivoting wersus new staff turning, I can give my 5p here.

This is not my routine way of balance staff turning, but I haven't made routine turning video, just this one I have. But it shows the technic I use when needed to work on T rest.

The repivoting of balance staff is something I generally don't recommend as prefered way. You can see the balance in the video is useless and I used it just to show the process, as a friend asked me to.

Repivoting takes about 10 minutes to me and saves dissassembling and reassembling of the balance. Staff turning usually takes 30 min. and then assembling, trueing, poising checks and so on may be another 30. The both ways usually will reqire regulation of the balance, but it strongly depends on what is expected as watch performance - is it needed to be chronometer-like adjusted or just good strong beat is enough.

Another helpfull video shows how to take off the brokend old balance staff from the balance, when it is the riveted type.

This all are simple phone recorded videos, so quality of the record is bad, but anyway, I hope, still can be helpfull

Edited October 26, 2023 by nevenbekriev

[Neverenoughwatches]

33 minutes ago, nevenbekriev said:

Hi again here,

Old thread, but if still interessed in repivoting wersus new staff turning, I can give my 5p here.

This is not my routine way of balance staff turning, but I haven't made routine turning video, just this one I have. But it shows the technic I use when needed to work on T rest.

The repivoting of balance staff is something I generally don't recommend as prefered way. You can see the balance in the video is useless and I used it just to show the process, as a friend asked me to.

Repivoting takes about 10 minutes to me and saves dissassembling and reassembling of the balance. Staff turning usually takes 30 min. and then assembling, trueing, poising checks and so on may be another 30. The both ways usually will reqire regulation of the balance, but it strongly depends on what is expected as watch performance - is it needed to be chronometer-like adjusted or just good strong beat is enough.

Another helpfull video shows how to take off the brokend old balance staff from the balance, when it is the riveted type.

This all are simple phone recorded videos, so quality of the record is bad, but anyway, I hope, still can be helpfull

Appreciate the reply on an old post nev, yes helpful videos thank you.