Watchmaster Wt Cleaning Machine Garter Spring (New)

[Hoosier65]

When I get a vintage tool I start immediately looking for replacement part. After research it seemed e hardest part to replace is the garter spring for the articulating motor for the fan with a reliable substitute. I found a company that makes the springs and a stock item that is close. The major problems comes down to price break. Since small lots are considered prototype the first reasonable number is 10 @ $6 each. See below

http://www.asraymond.com/garter-springs.html?cid=e-garter-springs&id=G0500100506

My measurements on my machine is

Do: 0.098

Di: 1.6

D: 0.012

Active body Length: 5.0

What's everyone's thoughts?

[Geo]

Make one from the correct gauge of piano wire.

Are the sizes you give metric or imperial?

[Hoosier65]

Sorry, English not metric

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[Geo]

You could make it from this http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Piano-Wire-3-foot-long-92cm-for-Crafts-Metal-Working-Industrial-Toys-Games-/261750056467?pt=UK_Crafts_Other_Crafts_EH&var=&hash=item3cf184e613 All you would need would be a mandrel of the correct diameter to wind the wire around that will give the correct size after spring back. A quick bit of trial and error is all that is required.

[Hoosier65]

Actually, for the wire to maintain the correct curved position and spring it would have to be heat treated and quinched to form the correct grain structure within the metal once it is formed around the mandrel.  Not really knowing about piano wire I doubt if it has the correct carbon content to become a spring. just wrapping a wire around a mandrel won't make it retain shape and it will want to return to that shape of a strainght wire. 

[Geo]

That gauge of piano wire can be formed cold around a mandrel, the mandrel has to be considerably smaller then the finished diameter hence trial and error to get the correct finished size.

If you want to go the heat treatment way, first anneal the wire before wrapping it around a mandrel of almost correct size. Then cut and finish the spring to the correct size. When you have done that, heat the spring to cherry red and quench in water, it will now be almost glass hard. Next polish the spring. You can now either temper it to spring hardness by placing it on plate of brass then heat the brass until the spring turns dark to light blue, then quench immediately in thin oil, or as I have done on many occasions dipped the spring into a lead pot set to about 640F. Using the lead method, there is little chance of drawing too much hardness and you don't have to quench it.

[Hoosier65]

Ok, let's say that works. I'm doubting. Sounds way more expensive and time consuming then just buying a premade one.

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[Geo]

What's everyone's thoughts?

You asked, I answered! :)

[Hoosier65]

Understood. It's something to look into. [emoji6]

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[Mark]

Actually, for the wire to maintain the correct curved position and spring it would have to be heat treated and quinched to form the correct grain structure within the metal once it is formed around the mandrel.  Not really knowing about piano wire I doubt if it has the correct carbon content to become a spring. just wrapping a wire around a mandrel won't make it retain shape and it will want to return to that shape of a strainght wire. 

 

I form springs all the time from spring wire. Never had to do any heat treatment. Try it first rather than dismiss outright. 

[Hoosier65]

I guess I'm looking too deep into it.  with a background in metallurgy I see difference in cold form and heat treated grain structures in the metal that makes a spring do what it does.  Martensitic grain structure is important for the rigidity of the metal to remember its shape and "spring". once the initial outer shell of the spring is case hardened the interanal needs to be ductile for durability. I'm familiar with induction and flame harding, I see the garter spring for the mechanics of the Watchmaster WT to be more industrial along the lines I'm familiar with. I've just started on watches and the ideal of such small engineering marvels is exciting.  I might get some wire and play around, but unless you can realign that grain structure to be more rigid on the outside I'm not hopeful of long term use.  I did go online and research others that were making torsion/tension springs from wire, including annealing to reduce internal stress. Eventhough I'm doubtful about making a spring for this application out of piano wire I didn't mean to dismiss his ideal.

 

I opened this topic to see if anyone would be interested into looking at the company I listed and if they had any ideals about that.  I didn't really want to make a spring, I look at the articulating motor bracket in the heater section and I could do the same thing with a tension spring and o-ring with a little redesign and get the same effect and might work better.  But might isn't really good enough and adding any additional stresses on the motor other than those it was designed for could lead to its premature failure.

 

Sorry if anyone thinks I'm a little dismissive, not meaning to seem like that. Just really didn't want to go down the diy spring road.  

 

on a more interesting note, chocolate goes through the same phase changes as metal.  I've know more then one chocolate chemist that worked for the automotive industry as a product engineer for things like transmissions and engines.