Looking to try servicing an old movement

[tcabot]

Well I just found out that 90% of the designs I like have the numbers painted with radium paint, so I think that's ebay fever cured

[Geotex]

There is a narrow section of time where tritium replaced radium as a lume, and it is much less of a theoretical health concern. Benrus tritium watches have a small “T” visible above the 12 on the dial, and other makes may have “T Swiss T” at the bottom of the dial. Although these are from the 60’s and newer, there are still some with vintage styling and parts are often more available than older movements.

[tcabot]

Thanks! I wondered what the "T Swiss T" meant.

On the subject of parts, if a watch "winds & runs", what are the chances of it "just" needing a clean and a service if it's from 40s, 50s, 60s? Just want to know what I'm potentially signing myself up to.

[tcabot]

I really don't want to come across as a nervous nelly, but am I right that any watch from 40s-60s with some lume paint is likely to be radium? Ww2-era ones splattered with paint are the obvious suspects, and I even started noticing ebay ads with radium burn on dials, but I see lots of designs where there's just a bit of paint on the hands and a few dots on the dial. Am I correct in thinking that i really don't want my kids to be licking and snorting the dotted ones either and I should just assume they are all guilty until proven innocent?

[watchhammer]

As a fellow newbie who's made a bunch of mistakes over the past year or 2 I'd like to offer my experience. I didn't start with a new practice movement, I started with 1970s Tissot that I loved. If I could do it over I would still use a vintage watch for my first movement. I wouldn't, however, chose one I cared about or that was expensive. It also had a calendar complication- dont do that. I learned a lot about part compatibility and movement families right away though! Emmy watch and Ranfft are great resources for this! I would start with the Benrus and go ahead and find a parts movement right away YOU WILL BREAK AND LOSE PARTS!

Get good tweezers, it's much harder to handle tiny springs than YouTube would suggest. And be extra carful, pivots don't like to be forced into jewels - bridges are a real pain in the ass at the start. Don't be afraid to use your bare hands to hold parts/bridges and handle the movement. Finger cotts can come later. Be as carful as possible with hairsprings, this can ruin all the fun! 

Buy a cheap demagnitizer.

For me, I think its fine to buy cheap tools in the beginning and replace as you go. But some things I wish I'd have spent more money on right of the bat - TWEEZERS and Rodico (don't get the fake stuff). There's a great thread here on Chinese tools.

I used a cheap digital microscope for a long time. I got quite good at working under it even with no depth perception. It's probably better to just use loupes but I think it helped me be more mindful and it was great for inspection. I now have a stereo microscope and if you get really into this hobby, it's a must.

I cleaned everything by hand in the beginning. This is great for getting familiar with each part and learning to inspect for faults. Peg your jewels! I still hand clean a lot of parts before the ultrasonic. I still use JUST Naptha and IPA and I think thats adequate for my hobby purposes but maybe I'll have moved up in another year. I swish the shellaced parts in IPA for a few seconds to rinse (don't tell anyone). I used to dry each part on a sheet of paper with a puffer. Again, this is good for getting to know each part. I now dry everything in a food dehydrator.

Im not going to give any advice on oil because thats suicide. But... until very recently I used just mobius 8000 and Molycote DX for everything. I dont know if I would do it differently If I were to go back but its definitely cheap and it will teach you how to apply oil. 

Take a picture after every move even if it's just scratching yourself. 

Wind mainsprings by hand until you decide you like the hobby, spend that winder money on tweezers and parts movements.

This place is great, there are a bunch of incredible KNOWLEDGEABLE guys willing to help you. Unfortunately, this is as much as I can help, as I'm nowhere near their level. 

Oh... and buy a big magnet.

Still one of my favorite watches and it reminds me of all the broken pivots and pinged springs every time I put it on.

 

worth every penny.

 

 

 

Edited Monday at 06:06 PM by watchhammer

[AndyGSi]

I'd leave the Benrus till you've got more experience as information and parts are non existent and donor movements are expensive.

I know it's based on something like an ETA 2370 but what they changed and what's still compatible is unknown.

[watchhammer]

https://ebay.us/m/Oc7RUU

This could come in handy 

https://ebay.us/m/STf5rc

[tcabot]

Thank you.

Is there anywhere I can read a crash course about de-magnetisers?

[Kalanag]

1 hour ago, tcabot said:

Is there anywhere I can read a crash course about de-magnetisers?

 

[tcabot]

Thanks. That was easier than I though!

[watchhammer]

18 hours ago, AndyGSi said:

I'd leave the Benrus till you've got more experience as information and parts are non existent and donor movements are expensive.

I know it's based on something like an ETA 2370 but what they changed and what's still compatible is unknown.

This is probably correct thinking. Again, many people much more knowledgeable than myself on here. Maybe it's best to buy a cheap lot of very broken watches just to practice screwdriver and tweezer work for a while then clean the Benrus? I dont want to give bad advice because I'm nieve/novice, but I think some times you just have to dive in and make some mistakes. 

[tcabot]

I've ordered a cheap ST36. It's large and very well documented online, so even a dumbo like me can figure it out.

After stripping and assembling it several times I'm tempted to reach out to my contact in Kiev and ask him to send me a bucket of old Soviet watches. I have a thing for the Soviet stuff.

[tcabot]

Game on!

ST36 has arrived, but there's still a few questions and I'd be grateful for your help.

I've got a set of cheapo Chinese screwdrivers that I bought years ago, so I'll use it for now for learning. Decent tweezers in the post.

I also have a clip-on cheapo Chinese loupe 5x. Looking at the ST36, I am guessing that I need a 10x? I happen to have a (cheapo) digital microscope too - am I better off just learning to work under the microscope right from the start?

For oiling, am I really better off getting automatic oilers, or should I learn with regular ones?

Any of you folks use geiger counters? Are cheap ones (~£20-30 off ebay) good enough for checking watches, just in case they are hot? I intend to avoid lume unless it's tritium, but you never know what you're dealing with.

[tomh207]

Some answers from my view

screwdrivers - if the bodies are ok for you maybe only look at changing the blades if possible, probably 100 and 140 first.

loupes - 3-3.5 is what is normally recommended for disassembly and assembly, 10x for inspection 

digital microscope - not great for working on movements as there is no depth perception, great for inspection and taking photos to post here

automatic oilers - a bite marmite/vegemite at times, various opinions, some swear by them, some use them only for certain jewel settings others don’t care for them at all. They are not at all necessary, the usual alix etc. ones are fine and you don’t need to spend a fortune. They are very subjective though, you may end up making your own from a needle and peg wood because you like it just so.

 

can’t help with the Geiger counter, I’m one of the ones who don’t get freaked out about it. There is a legitimate concern, however as long as your not licking the dials/hands, or snorting the degraded old powder you are likely to be absolutely fine.

 

Tom

[LittleWatchShop]

Cheap gieger counters will tell you if you have radium, but don't waste your money and don't worry about it.

Edited 9 hours ago by LittleWatchShop

[Neverenoughwatches]

On 5/13/2025 at 12:05 PM, tcabot said:

Thanks. That was easier than I though!

Its good to understand how and why demagnetisers work. These two pieces of text explain in basic terms how ferrous metal is affected by magnetism and why they can retain some of those properties. 

The cheap demagnetiser is actually a magnetiser,but is used in a way that can remove the weak magnetic properties that a steel has gained through magnetic field exposure. 

As steel is drawn further away from the device, the magnetic fields around it become progressively weaker and more -irregular- . This causes the disruption of the atomic and subatomic alignments within the steel that make it magnetised. So also moving the steel  through different orientations as its pulled away could actually improve that process.

1 hour ago, tcabot said:

I've got a set of cheapo Chinese screwdrivers that I bought years ago, so I'll use it for now for learning. Decent tweezers in the post.

I still use my first cheap set of drivers, I notice very little difference in the way of feel between them and a set of preowned Bergeon I use, blade quality is more important. Tweezers have more variables, but again they don't have to be expensive to work well. My most used tweezers are my cheapest, but then I never use any pair that I haven't modified in some way. 

Edited 10 hours ago by Neverenoughwatches

[tcabot]

1 hour ago, LittleWatchShop said:

Cheap ginger counters will tell you if you have radium, but don't waste your money and don't worry about it.

I remember playing with asbestos wire insultaion when I was a kid (remember the cool fluffy white stuff?) and I've been breathing fine dust particles in my woodworking shop for years, so I'm probably toast either way, but I don't want any of this radioactive dust anywhere near my kids.

Edited 10 hours ago by tcabot

[Neverenoughwatches]

I've recently switched over to using a x2.5 -x3 eyeglass for disassembly and some larger part assembly. It's interesting to see how accustomed and trained your eyes become to that way of working after using a microscope for years. And pick up and work at eyelevel when possible. Personally I would stick with and learn to use regular oilers efficiently. 

[mbwatch]

I also still use my cheap first set of screwdrivers. I replaced the blades of the smallest (0.6mm) with higher quality once I had bent a few of the originals, but beyond that I have been fine. Note though that I do not work on any remotely valuable watches and most of what I deal with are in a truly terrible state, watches that have been banging around in kitchen drawers or toolboxes. So my concern for screw head slot integrity and scratches is usually not very high. 

As for a loupe - you won't need anything powerful for an ST36 that is new. You don't need to do close inspection of balance pivots because they will not be worn out, and a 3x or 5x loupe is perfectly sufficient to see the oiling.

I don't have any microscope or powerful magnification of any sort. I just use cheap loupes. But again this would be different if I were working with more valuable watches. And if I had equipment to burnish pivots, then I would get a microscope to check my work.

Edited 9 hours ago by mbwatch

[LittleWatchShop]

Demagnetizers work on the principle of a decaying magnetic field. Whether the expensive Elma or the cheap Chinese...same principle.

For the cheap ones, you are decaying the magnetic field manually by drawing the watch away from the demagnetizer while it is energized.

The Elma (and others) generates a decaying magnetic field electronically so you don't have to do the work.

If you use the cheap ones properly,  they will do the job. I prefer the Elma style...but that is just me.