9020 or HP500? Which would I get the most use out of?

[Simeon]

I have been battling an Omega 3220 movement with Dubois Depraz chrono module. I have several generations of technical guide for this movement which initially proposes using 9020 for oiling pivots and in the later version HP500.  Not particularly concerned as to which one I use for the 3220 and I am also happy to have an oil somewhere between HP1300 and 9010 for oiling the slower moving wheels in the train on other watches.

Which one would I get the most use out of for servicing other watches?

Edited yesterday at 06:09 AM by Simeon

[Neverenoughwatches]

3 hours ago, Simeon said:

I have been battling an Omega 3220 movement with Dubois Depraz chrono module. I have several generations of technical guide for this movement which initially proposes using 9020 for oiling pivots and in the later version HP500.  Not particularly concerned as to which one I use for the 3220 and I am also happy to have an oil somewhere between HP1300 and 9010 for oiling the slower moving wheels in the train on other watches.

Which one would I get the most use out of for servicing other watches?

Depends what sizes of watches you mostly service . If you were to say pocket watches then you might benefit by wholly replacing the 9010 for 9020. As a rough guide hp500 is twice the viscosity of 9020 which is twice the viscosity of 9010 at 20°c.  So hp500 would give you a more mid-range oil between thin 9010 and HP1300, but as it happens hp750 is more mid- range than hp500, but is that more or less useful when oiling a train of wheels. After the barrel arbor the jump down in pivot size is around half, then after the centre wheel maybe more than half until the escapement. And pivot size isn't especially a deciding factor, as the torque and speed of a pivot would be more relevant when thinking about which oil to choose. So 750 might only be useful on a centre wheel and nothing else, and 500 might be better than 1300 for oiling the centre wheel but still comprises the rest of the train, where 9020 would be ok for the train but too thin for the centre wheel, leaving only 1300 for the oiling of it. You see the problem we're having here. What can be ok for one thing is less ok for another in a different way, damping down power compared to oil spread.  Maybe mixing a drop from two opposite range viscosity synthetic oils will give you some approximate thickness of an in-between . You want a short answer now ?  I tnink I'd go with the 9020. Now be prepared for a whole host of different answers.

Then to go with this, watch manufacturers change their minds about which oils to use more times than actresses change their knickers. 

Edited yesterday at 07:22 AM by Neverenoughwatches

[Simeon]

I did wonder about the feasibility of mixing two oils. I am guessing that 9010 / 9020 or HP500 / HP1300 would be a better mix than 9010 / HPxx.

Some people might think that was heresy but I guess the only consequence is that you might have to service the movement again if you got a poor result. 

[JohnR725]

On 5/8/2025 at 8:37 PM, Simeon said:

9020 for oiling pivots and in the later version HP500

In addition to the servicing guides do you have all of these supplemental information that Omega has? The reason I bring this up is the service guides might cover lubrication but things like epilam aren't always covered not mentally get to the newest generation of documents where it might actually mentions in the technical work normally it's in the supplemental guide?

20 hours ago, Simeon said:

I did wonder about the feasibility of mixing two oils. I am guessing that 9010 / 9020 or HP500 / HP1300 would be a better mix than 9010 / HPxx.

By mixing did you mean one drop of one oil mixed in with one drop of another oil to make a new lubrication or what exactly?

Oh and I've attached a PDF the lubrication guide which by the way I do not follow sort of. Notice on the very bottom of the page a reference to? I just copy and paste something from the bottom

The Synt-HP oils (9101, 9102, 9103, 9104) are preferentially in use for ruby bearings. For brass bearings, we recommend Microgliss D-4 or D-5.

Notice for ruby bearings you can use the HP oils but if you're dealing with metal on metal you're not supposed to. Except this now conflicts with other aspects of Swatch group including Omega. Then the D series Are not synthetic so they have a shorter life?

Then lubrication is such a bazaar subject with a very opinionated people and a considerable conflict with various documentation of depending upon who you look at. For instance you look at their recommendations for balance 9010 or 8000 which are both very light oils unless you're working in Arctic conditions.

Oh then attaching another PDF. What makes this PDF interesting as far as I'm concerned is we have a company that actually grasps lubrication versus probably just about everybody else. Basically any time using 9010 are supposed to epilam everything including the balance staff pivots although finding that out as little bit harder. Typically anytime using HP oils you're supposed to be epilam ing as it has a habit of migrating without epilam. But personal experience has been  9020 will stay in place although that's just my personal observation for what it's worth. Then we have this silly company the oil of choice 9020. So if you look they lubricate the entire watch with only three lubricants they have a grease I would you something different I like 9504 they have 9020 I love 9020 and they have the grease for the escapement

oh and you're not mistaken that using 9020 on the balance pivots other than me as far as I had tell they're the only ones. As I'm typically not working on little tiny watches my lubrication of choice is 9020 for the balance pivots for the gear train for the center wheel I usually use HP 1300 but I can probably use 9020 there I am suspicious when at the bottom of lubrication chart the reference to not to use HP lubricants on metal on metal we don't get an answer of why other then I believe you need epilam. This is where a lot of companies use the HP 1300 on the key less and they epilam the entire T list to keep it from spreading all over the universe.

 

tableEN lubrication watches.pdf PIAGET 12p.pdf

[Simeon]

1 hour ago, JohnR725 said:

addition to the servicing guides do you have all of these supplemental information that Omega has? The reason I bring this up is the service guides might cover lubrication but things like epilam aren't always covered not mentally get to the newest generation of documents where it might actually mentions in the technical work normally it's in the supplemental guide?

Yes, this is on the basis of no epilam. Interestingly, the technical guide calls for using HP1300 instead of grease on a lot of stuff in the keyless works which might indicate an assumption that it had all been treated with epilam. 

 

1 hour ago, JohnR725 said:

By mixing did you mean one drop of one oil mixed in with one drop of another oil to make a new lubrication or what exactly?

This, exactly I suppose . Literally trying to get a more, or less, viscous oil by mixing two different oils together. Obviously you would imagine using oils from the same 'family' would make them more compatible. 

 

1 hour ago, JohnR725 said:

The Synt-HP oils (9101, 9102, 9103, 9104) are preferentially in use for ruby bearings. For brass bearings, we recommend Microgliss D-4 or D-5.

Actually, I knew this. Everyone seems to use HP1300 to substitute D5 but Moebius actually recommend their HP oils only for jewelled bearings. If it's a brass bushing D5 is best. 

Interested what the outcome might be if I used 9020 on the balance/ escape wheel pivots of a typical wristwatch sized movement. The practical consequence of this would be having to service the movement again if it doesn't work but actually the real consequence is that you have bought 2ml of extremely expensive oil that you might not use again.