Hamilton Valjoux 7732 dial up fault

[WatchHor]

Aloha. Looking forward help with my nearly finished project. Watch is running great dial down… cased and checked dial up… garbage. Low amplitude, running 2 minutes fast, beat error is like 7ms. Also there is a noise when dial up like maybe the hairspring rubbing? Tinny noise in time with the escapement beat. Maybe I need a new balance staff? There is no way to adjust the endshake on the balance is there? Thought that might be the issue. I’m attaching time-grapher pics. Thanks in advance for any ideas. 

[Knebo]

Hey @WatchHor, 

You'll need to send us pics of the movement and the balance (especially from the side while it is running dial up, to see if the hairspring is rubbing somewhere).

Hard to say from timegrapher alone, but it sounded plausible that the hairspring is rubbing. 

Cheers

[WatchHor]

31 minutes ago, Knebo said:

Hey @WatchHor, 

You'll need to send us pics of the movement and the balance (especially from the side while it is running dial up, to see if the hairspring is rubbing somewhere).

Hard to say from timegrapher alone, but it sounded plausible that the hairspring is rubbing. 

Cheers

Yes I kind of think the hairspring is rubbing on the hour wheel (second wheel?). When I got the watch it was hitting the wheel and causing it to barely run at all. I moved the hairspring stud down a few just a touch and it it solved the issue. It doesn’t seem to foul when dial up just looking at it but the noise is what tipped me off that it might be rubbing. Of course it could be rubbing on the balance itself.. in short it looks normal.. nothing wrong that you could see in pictures. But the tinny noise and grapher makes me think there’s too much end shake? Causing the balance to drop just a bit dial up and either push the balance against the hairspring or the hairspring against the hour wheel. Is there a what to adjust end shake in the balance?

[Knebo]

This perspective doesn't really help. It would have to be properly from the side, like this:

 

Need to see if the hairspring is flat and parallel to the balance wheel.

Moving down the stud will often give the hairspring a tilt (because the collet on the balance staff and the regulator pins/shoe will stay the same).

 

[WatchHor]

7 minutes ago, Knebo said:

This perspective doesn't really help. It would have to be properly from the side, like this:

 

Need to see if the hairspring is flat and parallel to the balance wheel.

Moving down the stud will often give the hairspring a tilt (because the collet on the balance staff and the regulator pins/shoe will stay the same).

 

Hmm.. seems flat to me. To get that angle I’ll need to get it back out of the case. It doesn’t function at all with the stud in almost any other position. A little bit higher and the spring knocks against the wheel and any lower and the stud fouls on the spokes of the balance completely stopping it. 

[Knebo]

I guess you'd need to get it out of the case anyway to fix and issue. Clearly, it's not good as it is. 

One thing you could check before, though, is the endshake of the centre wheel. Maybe, when installing the chronograph seconds hand (and you, or a previous repairer, didn't support the jewel/bridge), it may have moved the jewel and increased endshake to an extent that now it goes up/down and fowls the balance/hairspring. 

[WatchHor]

Seems like too much endshake on the balance.. are these shock setting plates adjustable? It looks as if there is a notch to pry them free. I don’t think they are threaded though I could be wrong… I have a staking set but no jewel setting tool which I think would be required for the micro-adjustments that would be required. Going to a professional on Tuesday if I can’t get this figured out by then. Attached pictures of the balance cock top and bottom showing the plate

[WatchHor]

Just an update for anyone following... I solved the issue after watching a video explaining how to hack/bodge balance endshake. In the video a balance was too tight causing loss of amplitude. To "adjust" a small gouge was made with a screwdriver on the plate resulting in a tiny bump on the plate north of the cock screw tilting the balance up slightly... so in my case I made the gouge south of the cock screw which gave me the desired result tilting the balance cock slightly down. Timing is still +/- 15sec depending on position but there is no rubbing noise. Decent result for a 60 year old watch 

[Knebo]

43 minutes ago, WatchHor said:

Timing is still +/- 15sec depending on position

That's totally acceptable! 

 

44 minutes ago, WatchHor said:

hack/bodge balance endshake. In the video a balance was too tight causing loss of amplitude. To "adjust" a small gouge was made with a screwdriver on the plate resulting in a tiny bump on the plate north of the cock screw tilting the balance up slightly...

There was a discussion about this recently if this is a bodge or acceptable. I'll say: problem solved, well done! 

 

Gorgeous watch, by the way!!