Oops, bought a lathe.

[mbwatch]

I just won an auction on a Webster Whitcomb lathe . Headstock, tailstock, tip over toolrest and a Borel base. I'll have to get a motor. And gravers. And collets (comes with a couple). And books. And. And. And. This wasn't particularly expensive, but I am expecting I'll be sinking a good chunk into completing and accessorizing it from now on... And I have all of you to thank for egging me on.

[Razz]

pictures, please1

[tomh207]

I would recommend the reprinted H. Jendritski book “THE WATCHMAKER AND HIS LATHE”. I did a short review of it in the books and documents section and happy to provide more information on it if needed.

 

our very own @jon and @Dell both have videos on YouTube servicing/refurbishing lathe headstocks though not the same lathes as you will be helpful.

 

@jdrichard has a ton of stuff on his channel too

 

Tom
 

[caseback]

And the carbide gravers mentioned in this post by @Nevenbekriev work great and are dirt cheap. For most applications you don't need to reshape them. I only rounded one off a bit for making the radius on balance staffs 
 
https://www.watchrepairtalk.com/topic/29977-balance-staff-just-can’t-get-to-02/?do=findComment&comment=254624

[Dell]

I make my own gravers , some hardwood dowl HSS blank and brass tube, if you purchase ready made gravers don’t get the ones with very fat handles as they are for engraving.

This is an excellent DVD

https://wrsmithclocks.com/product/graver-making-and-hand-turning-for-clockmakers/

[Neverenoughwatches]

9 hours ago, mbwatch said:

I just won an auction on a Webster Whitcomb lathe . Headstock, tailstock, tip over toolrest and a Borel base. I'll have to get a motor. And gravers. And collets (comes with a couple). And books. And. And. And. This wasn't particularly expensive, but I am expecting I'll be sinking a good chunk into completing and accessorizing it from now on... And I have all of you to thank for egging me on.

Nothing to do with me, absolutely nothing at all .  Pictures Michael please.

[mbwatch]

5 hours ago, caseback said:

And the carbide gravers mentioned in this post by @Nevenbekriev work great and are dirt cheap. For most applications you don't need to reshape them. I only rounded one off a bit for making the radius on balance staffs 

This is great, thank you. A relief that I will at least not spend too much on gravers and sharpening equipment (and time and practice at that part) to just get started with the lathe. It looks like these can be bought with 30°, 45°, 60° slopes. What do you recommend staring with?

 

@Razz & @Neverenoughwatches I will come back with unboxing photos when it arrives.

[caseback]

I use the 60 degr. 0.1mm type. For sharpening or reshaping I use these diamond sharpening plates (see pic.)

I use these gravers without any handle. Holding the end between 2 fingers of my right hand and keeping pressure on it with the index finger of my left hand gives me all the control I need. 

The motor for my lathe is a simple sewing machine motor. 

 

Edited January 19 by caseback

[mbwatch]

9 minutes ago, caseback said:

I use the 60 degr. 0.1mm type. For sharpening or reshaping I use these diamond sharpening plates

Thank you! It will be great to have a starting point. Does 0.1mm refer to the tip thickness, or what dimension?

[caseback]

I believe it's supposed to be the tip radius.

And if possible, get rid of the borell base and mount it on a nice solid piece of wood.

I believe our resident lathe encyclopedia (Nickelsilver) hates these borel stands, and who am I to disagree with him.

Mass helps dampening any vibration you might get from the motor. 

My baby brother got me this nice piece of tropical hardwood. Weighs a ton. Absolutely solid. But a good quality cutting board should also work fine.

[Neverenoughwatches]

2 hours ago, mbwatch said:

This is great, thank you. A relief that I will at least not spend too much on gravers and sharpening equipment (and time and practice at that part) to just get started with the lathe. It looks like these can be bought with 30°, 45°, 60° slopes. What do you recommend staring with?

 

@Razz & @Neverenoughwatches I will come back with unboxing photos when it arrives.

The ones I bought had sharp angles, probably 30° . Personally I think you need more meat behind the cutting edge to retain the sharpness. They are easy to re-grind to whatever shape you want.  

[mbwatch]

22 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

The ones I bought had sharp angles, probably 30° . Personally I think you need more meat behind the cutting edge to retain the sharpness.

Well then I think I'll just splurge out with the extra seven dollars and get those too. Seeing as I will spend the rest of my life accessorizing my lathe. Cross slides cost how much O_O? oof.

[Neverenoughwatches]

2 hours ago, mbwatch said:

Well then I think I'll just splurge out with the extra seven dollars and get those too. Seeing as I will spend the rest of my life accessorizing my lathe. Cross slides cost how much O_O? oof.

Yeah I thought the angles were way to steep,  they were the only ones I could find, I changed the angles straight away. Save your cash you'll need every cent to put towards the crossslide

[tomh207]

Just now, Neverenoughwatches said:

Yeah I thought the angles were way to steep,  they were the only ones I could find, I changed the angles straight away. Save your cash you'll need every cent to put towards the crossslide

I think it was on a Dean DK video about gravers that he was using 45 degrees for roughing but finish was good and 20 degrees for finishing.

i’m going to upset you now Rich, I have got TWO cross slides now

 

Tom

[Neverenoughwatches]

8 minutes ago, tomh207 said:

I think it was on a Dean DK video about gravers that he was using 45 degrees for roughing but finish was good and 20 degrees for finishing.

i’m going to upset you now Rich, I have got TWO cross slides now

 

Tom

[tomh207]

Just checked through the two lathe books I have, Jendritski and De Carle, neither mention graver sharpening angles specifically. They really talk more about the shapes. For cross slide work which is a different cutter then they go into angles much more, rake etc.

 

Tom

[Dell]

20 hours ago, tomh207 said:

Just checked through the two lathe books I have, Jendritski and De Carle, neither mention graver sharpening angles specifically. They really talk more about the shapes. For cross slide work which is a different cutter then they go into angles much more, rake etc.

 

Tom

For a standard diamond graver I use 45 deg but I do have other shapes & angles.

Dell

[mbwatch]

@Dell
@caseback

What sort of tool do you use (or make) for parting off?

[tomh207]

1 minute ago, Dell said:

For a standard diamond graver I use 45 deg but I do have other shapes & angles.

Dell

Good to know @Dell . I have been looking for definitions around this and not found anything yet. Keen to get into watchmaking lathe work this year as a bit of a project.

Tom

[Dell]

20 minutes ago, mbwatch said:

@Dell
@caseback

What sort of tool do you use (or make) for parting off?

I use a modified Exacto blade , I will add a picture tomorrow as it’s 6.15 PM here and dark.

Dell

[caseback]

3 hours ago, mbwatch said:

@Dell
@caseback

What sort of tool do you use (or make) for parting off?

I have some of those 20 degree angle gravers as well. I reshaped one to get 2 parallel(lish) sides with the (flat) point beeing slightly wider than the bit behind that (you want a parting tool to be a bit reverse tapered to avoid the sides to touch the cut and cause chatter), and made sure I had some relief angles all around. A dremel tool with a diamond disk makes the rough shaping very easy (and fast). I did the final shaping, sharpening and honing with the diamond plates I showed earlier. It doesn't have much stickout as the carbide is relatively brittle. Also when the tool is short you get less chatter. So instead of trying (struggeling) to achieve a deep thin cut (that might look nice) I tend to start with a wider cut that narrows as I get further in. Might not be pretty (or "best practise") but it works.

If you haven't already, I can recommend watching T&T&T's video's on youtube (you might want to turn the audio down).

 

Edited January 20 by caseback

[Dell]

I said I would post pictures of the tools I use for parting , I use the Xacto for parting brass & mild steel , the tool with the bulbus handle I use to part silver steel as it gives me something to push with , blue steel I use a dremmel with a fine grinding wheel run the lathe & the dremmel to put a groove then snap it off .

Here is a video of me using a graver may be helpfull

 

[mbwatch]

Thank you @Dell! I had no idea an Xacto blade could be sturdy enough to cut brass & mild steel and never would have guessed. I learn so much here.

[Dell]

9 minutes ago, mbwatch said:

Thank you @Dell! I had no idea an Xacto blade could be sturdy enough to cut brass & mild steel and never would have guessed. I learn so much here.

You are welcome I had trouble getting them here in the UK but you shouldn’t have any over there , just make sure you grind the point off otherwise to brittle.

[Neverenoughwatches]

On 1/20/2025 at 9:26 PM, caseback said:

I have some of those 20 degree angle gravers as well. I reshaped one to get 2 parallel(lish) sides with the (flat) point beeing slightly wider than the bit behind that (you want a parting tool to be a bit reverse tapered to avoid the sides to touch the cut and cause chatter), and made sure I had some relief angles all around. A dremel tool with a diamond disk makes the rough shaping very easy (and fast). I did the final shaping, sharpening and honing with the diamond plates I showed earlier. It doesn't have much stickout as the carbide is relatively brittle. Also when the tool is short you get less chatter. So instead of trying (struggeling) to achieve a deep thin cut (that might look nice) I tend to start with a wider cut that narrows as I get further in. Might not be pretty (or "best practise") but it works.

If you haven't already, I can recommend watching T&T&T's video's on youtube (you might want to turn the audio down).

 

Haha yes his overplay music drives me crazy. Watch his hairspring manipulation and overcoil work really good.

22 hours ago, Dell said:

I said I would post pictures of the tools I use for parting , I use the Xacto for parting brass & mild steel , the tool with the bulbus handle I use to part silver steel as it gives me something to push with , blue steel I use a dremmel with a fine grinding wheel run the lathe & the dremmel to put a groove then snap it off .

Here is a video of me using a graver may be helpfull

 

As far as I can tell Dell you hold the graver very differently to how I do for turning a cylinder. The ground edge I hold uppermost and cut using the center of the graver, maybe thats a woodturning thing I do.