Bah, I was hoping I was passed this. 3rd service came out bad and just wondering where I should start.

[Birbdad]

I just serviced a brand new unused nh36. Since my first two 7s26 services repairs came out literally perfect i figured this was just a cleaning and relubrication of a new movement so this would be a cinch. Of course not. Given the variance in positions i'm hoping somebody who knows more me will see the readings on it and have a good idea what to look at first.

I'm getting decent but not great vital in the dial down position, about 262 amplitude, +0 s/d.

ANy other position is another story though. the rate skyrockets as much as 80 s/d and the amplitude plummets over 100 points depending on the position. Dial up the amplitude drops to 220 and the rate is at it's highest at +90 s/d.

In crown down i get the lowest amplitude of only about 140 with rate about +40. 

The beat error remains about .0 to .1 regardless of position. 

I was VERY confident in my lubrication this 3rd time and the only thing i did different was i tried following seikos service sheet to a T instead of using a video so i could get better at reading them. The only place i deviated from the service sheet was the escapement lubing which i tried again doing the "correct" way, aka 9415 on the exit stone till there's that little blob on the entry stone taking up half the gap of the contact of the stone and the escape wheel....only in this movement you can't really see through the entry stone so i sorta guesstimate it but i'm pretty sure i was close. If anything it might be a tad under lubed.

It's gotta mean something that it runs pretty good in dial down and only dial down.

Edited January 1, 2023 by Birbdad

[Birbdad]

Ok. I didn't get any answers here but i solved the problem or problems so if you get these readings maybe i can help. 

1. The big positional variation was due to my hairspring not being centered in the regulator pins on my balance, they were rubbing against the inner pin even with the etachron regulator stud/pins set to all the way open. I opened it, adjusted the etachron stud so my hairspring was centered and then slowly closed it till there was the tiniest bit of movement in the hairspring. This corrected the positional variance in my rate. This was a new movement and it had this problem. 

2. I noticed a weird look to the oil bubble under my top balance jewel. THe bubble i had before had now gaps in it and was no longer round. I removed the shock spring, reversed it because that helped once cleaned and relubed it to a perfect bubble and that drastically increased my rate in all positions but was still not good enough.
 

3. Then i remembered since i was going off a seiko service sheet and for some insane reason they do not tell you to lubricate the barrel arbor, OR the jewel it sits in!  Insane! I went back and relubricated the barrel arbor with hp1300 and WOW, my amplitude in dial down jumped to 303 and in dial down 298 (briefly). 

Those things fixed all the issues. my amplitude is INSANE and my positional delta is fantastic now. 

[JohnFrum]

3 hours ago, Birbdad said:

3. Then i remembered since i was going off a seiko service sheet and for some insane reason they do not tell you to lubricate the barrel arbor, OR the jewel it sits in!  Insane! I went back and relubricated the barrel arbor with hp1300  

What version of the NH36 tech guide are you using? 
I’m seeing use of S6 on the arbor and the bottom arbor jewel.

The 7S26C guide suggests use of S4

[Birbdad]

4 hours ago, JohnFrum said:

What version of the NH36 tech guide are you using? 
I’m seeing use of S6 on the arbor and the bottom arbor jewel.

The 7S26C guide suggests use of S4

https://www.timemodule.com/upload/PDF/NH37_TG_E.pdf Ok i partially take it back on page 7 they do have you oil the jewel itself but not the bottom arbor. The guy who's lubrication videos i've been using has like 3 lubrication points on the bottom arbor. I did lubricate the jewel but once i lubricated all those points on the arbor my amplitude jumped 20 points.

[JohnFrum]

Their older manuals were more explicit 

[Neverenoughwatches]

22 hours ago, Birbdad said:

I just serviced a brand new unused nh36. Since my first two 7s26 services repairs came out literally perfect i figured this was just a cleaning and relubrication of a new movement so this would be a cinch. Of course not. Given the variance in positions i'm hoping somebody who knows more me will see the readings on it and have a good idea what to look at first.

I'm getting decent but not great vital in the dial down position, about 262 amplitude, +0 s/d.

ANy other position is another story though. the rate skyrockets as much as 80 s/d and the amplitude plummets over 100 points depending on the position. Dial up the amplitude drops to 220 and the rate is at it's highest at +90 s/d.

In crown down i get the lowest amplitude of only about 140 with rate about +40. 

The beat error remains about .0 to .1 regardless of position. 

I was VERY confident in my lubrication this 3rd time and the only thing i did different was i tried following seikos service sheet to a T instead of using a video so i could get better at reading them. The only place i deviated from the service sheet was the escapement lubing which i tried again doing the "correct" way, aka 9415 on the exit stone till there's that little blob on the entry stone taking up half the gap of the contact of the stone and the escape wheel....only in this movement you can't really see through the entry stone so i sorta guesstimate it but i'm pretty sure i was close. If anything it might be a tad under lubed.

It's gotta mean something that it runs pretty good in dial down and only dial down.

Did you take readings before you stripped it down ?

35 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Did you take readings before you stripped it down ?

No worries,all sorted

[Birbdad]

1 hour ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Did you take readings before you stripped it down ?

No worries,all sorted

I was actually kicking myself for not doing it that haha. Of course there happened to be a poorly set mainspring from the factory and that threw me for a loop thinking my service was worse than it was. 

thats' a lesson learned when servicing new movements for sure. Test it to make sure everything is in working order.

I get the feeling these seiko nh movements aren't REALLY designed to be just thrown into a watch. They really seem like they're designed for micro brands to come in and regulate or decorate or adjust to do whatever they want with them and then have them put in a watch. The factory oiling in seiko watches seems pretty excellent while the factory oiling on these non seiko branded NH movements is abysmal.

[JohnFrum]

55 minutes ago, Birbdad said:
I get the feeling these seiko nh movements aren't REALLY designed to be just thrown into a watch. They really seem like they're designed for micro brands to come in and regulate or decorate or adjust to do whatever they want with them and then have them put in a watch. The factory oiling in seiko watches seems pretty excellent while the factory oiling on these non seiko branded NH movements is abysmal.

Did you purchase it from a reputable supply house? A lot of counterfeit Chinese stuff out there 

[Birbdad]

Just now, JohnFrum said:

Did you purchase it from a reputable supply house? A lot of counterfeit Chinese stuff out there 

It' sfrom a very popular chinese seller on ebay. Definitely not counterfeit. I don't know of any counterfeit nh35 movements floating around. I have heard of counterfeit 7s26a movements and i've seen counterfeit balance completes for 7s26 but they were pretty easy to spot. I know one of seikos biggest timecorp factories is in china and i got a feeling a lot of these "fell off the truck". That or they're just wholesalers. 

If you got info on counterfeits of these i've not encountered i definitely need to know. I've ordered 4 nh35s and 1 nh34 from china and they all seem legit.