Landeron Hahn- Cousins UK- wrong escape wheel, balance gremlins...

[noirrac1j]

Hello,

I am working on a Landeron/hahn chronograph caliber 2, I posted on this project before. I ordered a new escape wheel from cousinsUK LAN2705 at a cost of approx. 36.13 GBP  ($47.22) with shipping. The escape wheel seems to have pivots which do not fit into the escape bridge. The top pivot seems doesn't seem to properly fit into the jewel setting in the bridge. I can barely see it when the bridge is on and there is too much friction for the mainspring to overcome.  

This is the part according to CousinsUK,  but there must be something wrong...any thoughts?

 

Also, I ordered a new balance shaft for the same movement from balancestaffs.com at 34.95 Euro. The first parcel came smashed and the balance shaft was nowhere to be found inside the envelope. Gertjan was kind enough to send me another free of charge, so kudos to balanceshafts.com for good business practices.

This is how it compares to the original, which is on the left:

After much word, I got it installed and put the roller and hairspring on--both fit fine, but it will won't rotate freely. It would seem the pivots are too long.  Can I gently grind this down or.....reorder another? 

 

I am going nuts with all the gremlins.

J

 

 

 

 

Edited September 15, 2018 by noirrac1j

[nickelsilver]

On old pieces so many things could be up for grabs. Jewels get changed, staffs get turned or close matches modified to fit (so comparing "original" to a replacement goes out the window), on landeron for example they had pretty long production runs, possible there was a change in dimensions that usually but not always "works anyways", second or third party part makers supplying spares decades after production stopped.

 

Looks like your escape upper pivot is too large in diameter. Can change the jewel or reduce the pivot. Balance pivots can also be modified but would be best to accurately measure the length needed before reducing their length.

 

Vintage stuff is often a challenge, not only is the piece worn but you're following behind many pairs of hands that may or may not have been skilled or kind.

 

 

[noirrac1j]

2 hours ago, nickelsilver said:

Hello,

Thanks for the reply. i'll have to try reducing the diameter of the escape wheel, because I have a staking set, but no jeweling tools. Not sure how to even go about reducing the diameter. I guess I'll give it a careful shot with my dremel and super fine polishing wheels....what could possibly go wrong? .

Meanwhile, I did remeasure the old balance staff--it's the only thing I have to go by when it comes to what I need to get this thing going again.

 

Balance staffs.com sent me a replacement that is

A=432

B=191

J=110

G=55

K=80

I am going to try to figure it out as best I can. I also ordered a used escape wheel from the bay as a backup, but I still need to figure of the balance shaft problem.

Thanks for the feedback.

J

 

[BUSAKAZ]

On ‎9‎/‎16‎/‎2018 at 12:09 AM, noirrac1j said:

Hello,

I am working on a Landeron/hahn chronograph caliber 2, I posted on this project before. I ordered a new escape wheel from cousinsUK LAN2705 at a cost of approx. 36.13 GBP  ($47.22) with shipping. The escape wheel seems to have pivots which do not fit into the escape bridge. The top pivot seems doesn't seem to properly fit into the jewel setting in the bridge. I can barely see it when the bridge is on and there is too much friction for the mainspring to overcome.  

This is the part according to CousinsUK,  but there must be something wrong...any thoughts?

 

Also, I ordered a new balance shaft for the same movement from balancestaffs.com at 34.95 Euro. The first parcel came smashed and the balance shaft was nowhere to be found inside the envelope. Gertjan was kind enough to send me another free of charge, so kudos to balanceshafts.com for good business practices.

This is how it compares to the original, which is on the left:

After much word, I got it installed and put the roller and hairspring on--both fit fine, but it will won't rotate freely. It would seem the pivots are too long.  Can I gently grind this down or.....reorder another? 

 

I am going nuts with all the gremlins.

J

 

 

 

 

Hi, all dimensions on that new staff are totally wrong it won't work if you have the old staff you are better of getting one made IMO, I hope this will save you time.

regards Kaz 

[noirrac1j]

7 hours ago, BUSAKAZ said:

Hi, all dimensions on that new staff are totally wrong it won't work if you have the old staff you are better of getting one made IMO, I hope this will save you time.

regards Kaz 

I think you're right. Even taking into account that the old one has broken pivot and bent pivot, the new one seems too long and the dimensions aren't even close. I looked for one with closer dimensions using the Ronda Balance staff list, and could not find one that matched the dimensions of the old one. I have a quote from someone in California that will turn a new balance staff for me for $175. Is that a reasonable amount for a new staff?!?

 

J

[BUSAKAZ]

I think you're right. Even taking into account that the old one has broken pivot and bent pivot, the new one seems too long and the dimensions aren't even close. I looked for one with closer dimensions using the Ronda Balance staff list, and could not find one that matched the dimensions of the old one. I have a quote from someone in California that will turn a new balance staff for me for $175. Is that a reasonable amount for a new staff?!?
 
J

Yes, but you need to send him / her the balance cock and bottom plate so they get it right first time, I would also ask you to send the balance complete,when making balance staffs you don’t work by measurements you work by feel/fit.

Hope this helps
Kaz


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[noirrac1j]

1 minute ago, BUSAKAZ said:

Yes, but you need to send him / her the balance cock and bottom plate so they get it right first time, I would also ask you to send the balance complete,when making balance staffs you don’t work by measurements you work by feel/fit.

Hope this helps
Kaz


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Yes, he asked for all the things you mentioned, which I can do if its the only way to get it running. He said he can do it in 3 days. And what of the cost? Does it seem right? I haven't located anyone else that can turn a balance shaft near me.

J

[BUSAKAZ]

So the part No for that staff is u 1533 the same as Cal 3


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[noirrac1j]

Yes indeed! Let me look around and see if U1533 can be found somewhere....Thanks!

 

J

[BUSAKAZ]

Yes indeed! Let me look around and see if U1533 can be found somewhere....Thanks!
 
J

Your very welcome glad to help ......


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[BUSAKAZ]

Yes, he asked for all the things you mentioned, which I can do if its the only way to get it running. He said he can do it in 3 days. And what of the cost? Does it seem right? I haven't located anyone else that can turn a balance shaft near me.
J

Yes the cost is ok if the watch has sentimental value but have a good look first ....


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[nickelsilver]

175 for a balance staff is a very good price, provided it's done well. Should look and perform at least as good as a genuine staff.

[noirrac1j]

I looked up U1533 and what I found was Flume1533 and a Bestfit tube 30. I am only slighly familiar with Bestfit 300 Matsys catalogue but don't have an account (just applied for one!).

 According to the source I read, the Bestfit has a balance that is:

A 435

B180

J110

G70

K 55

The B measurement is close to what I measured with my digital device, but J and G are way off.  I'm still trying to figure out what Flume means...I found something from long ago called Rudolf Flume?

J

 

[BUSAKAZ]

I've been looking for quite a while now and can't find anything can somebody look in the Bestfit catalogue there is nothing in Ronda... 

[BUSAKAZ]

I looked up U1533 and what I found was Flume1533 and a Bestfit tube 30. I am only slighly familiar with Bestfit 300 Matsys catalogue but don't have an account (just applied for one!).
 According to the source I read, the Bestfit has a balance that is:
A 435
B180
J110
G70
K 55
The B measurement is close to what I measured with my digital device, but J and G are way off.  I'm still trying to figure out what Flume means...I found something from long ago called Rudolf Flume?
J
 

Hi , have you cleaned the watch and made sure there isn’t any of the broken staff left in the pivot holes, and am I reading it right that it’s just to long ?


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[clockboy]

On 9/18/2018 at 4:56 PM, noirrac1j said:

I think you're right. Even taking into account that the old one has broken pivot and bent pivot, the new one seems too long and the dimensions aren't even close. I looked for one with closer dimensions using the Ronda Balance staff list, and could not find one that matched the dimensions of the old one. I have a quote from someone in California that will turn a new balance staff for me for $175. Is that a reasonable amount for a new staff?!?

 

J

On the balance staffs website you can just enter the sizes length (A) and the B measurement required and it will show matches. I have a jacot tool and I use it to reduce the length of a tight balance staff. 

[BUSAKAZ]

I've been looking for quite a while now and can't find anything can somebody look in the Bestfit catalogue there is nothing in Ronda... 

My bad,Ronda do two 1226/1227 but you already have the shorter one of the two that is why I ask the question above....


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[noirrac1j]

Hello,

Yes, I've cleaned, oiled and reassembled the entire movement. The plate pivot was the one that is broken ,

 

so I will double check the jewel to make sure there isn't anything in there. I cleaned it thoroughly, but it's worth checking.

J

[BUSAKAZ]

On the balance staffs website you can just enter the sizes length (A) and the B measurement required and it will show matches. I have a jacot tool and I use it to reduce the length of a tight balance staff. 

And me


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[noirrac1j]

2 minutes ago, BUSAKAZ said:

My bad,Ronda do two 1226/1227 but you already have the shorter one of the two that is why I ask the question above....


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Yes that's correct. I already bought the shorter one by Ronda.

J

[noirrac1j]

14 minutes ago, noirrac1j said:

 

I measured the length of the staff as 4.02 and adding .25mm for the broken pivot, I get 4.27mm for A.

 

J

 

[noirrac1j]

15 hours ago, BUSAKAZ said:

I've been looking for quite a while now and can't find anything can somebody look in the Bestfit catalogue there is nothing in Ronda... 

Hello,

Thanks for all of your help with this @BUSAKAZ. I created a Bestfit account and was able to find the following

Landeron 2 and 3   balance staff bestfit# 100/430

I've sent out a request for anyone having balance staffs with #100 system for help in finding 100/430.  I hope someone has one!

 

J

[BUSAKAZ]

Well done keep me informed....


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[BUSAKAZ]

4 hours ago, noirrac1j said:

Hello,

Thanks for all of your help with this @BUSAKAZ. I created a Bestfit account and was able to find the following

Landeron 2 and 3   balance staff bestfit# 100/430

I've sent out a request for anyone having balance staffs with #100 system for help in finding 100/430.  I hope someone has one!

 

J

How and where did you create a bestfit account ?

[noirrac1j]

I submitted the request, and that went directly to the Material's house (J Borel) I use here in the U.S. The Material house then approved and created my login info, and also bills me.

 

J