AS 1158 hairspring help

[Mattaphysics]

So looking at the picture it looks like I may have twisted the hairspring somehow upon disassembly. It's a small movement, just wondering if there's any tips to get these out easy? This has been a right old pain in the neck. It's since moved from up top to lower toward the collet now. Most certainly giving me a ride for my money. Any tips at untwisting this would be greatly appreciated thank you.

 

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[rogart63]

That could be hard to tangle out. Think it could be easier if you remove the bridge. Or put an oiler where the crossing is and move it upwards. Hopefully untangle the hairspring. Other then that you will need to find a new balance. 

[Nucejoe]

Hi, I done untangled many worse than this.

Remove the stud pin, then H/S from the wheel. Mount the collet on a needle, use another needle or even screwdriver to run through the spring in it,s direction, ( without the stud)  the spring end easily slips out of any loop.

You may have already caused damage to the spring near the collet, the closer the damage is to the collet the more cumbersome fixing the spring gets.

Regards

[nickelsilver]

Get it off the cock, put the balance on a bench block. Using two oilers, hold the place with one and coax the tangle toward the stud. Gently, no bending, just sliding. Microscope helps a lot. At the end you'll have to feed the stud over or under a coil. Gently!

[Mattaphysics]

That could be hard to tangle out. Think it could be easier if you remove the bridge. Or put an oiler where the crossing is and move it upwards. Hopefully untangle the hairspring. Other then that you will need to find a new balance. 

Thank you... Now I cannot understand how it's tangled though... Would you be able to explain it? If I could understand how it's tangled I think I could create a mental picture of how to untangle it. Is it that one of the outer spirals is wrapped around another a few layers in toward (if that makes sense to you) or that an outer spiral contracted, moved and then expanded underneath a spiral closer to the collet? The drawings show my ideation of those thoughts

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[rogart63]

2 hours ago, Mattaphysics said:

Thank you... Now I cannot understand how it's tangled though... Would you be able to explain it? If I could understand how it's tangled I think I could create a mental picture of how to untangle it. Is it that one of the outer spirals is wrapped around another a few layers in toward (if that makes sense to you) or that an outer spiral contracted, moved and then expanded underneath a spiral closer to the collet? The drawings show my ideation of those thoughts

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Having had the same problems a few times. Sometimes it's hard to see where is starts and stops and crossings each other.  Maybe it's the larger coil getting stuck under the smaller coil. But i think you need too remove to even have a change to fix it.  My first times the hairspring ended me pulling it in two pieces. 

[Nucejoe]

If you prefer you can pin the needle on a paper glue to a plywood, to untangle.

For manipulation you need access to both sides of H/S, so mounting on needle again, or manipulation with the H/S on the palm of your hand is best.

[GeorgeC]

I have a thread for exactly your troubles.

 

[Nucejoe]

A picture is worth a thousand words. GeorgeC provided picture of what I was trying to say.

I always remove the stud though, advantage of which you will find out in practice.

All this is for untangling. Mattaphysics is likely to face hopelessly damaged H/S near the collet.

Balance hairspring completes with none-removable H/S would have to be untangled right there on the wheel, which limits h/s manipulation.

 

[Mattaphysics]

This is THE most helpful place I've ever been... I've not yet got the cajones to need with it but I did unscrew the pin from the balance cock, and remove it from the regulator and it's sitting waiting to be untangled... I made this helpful device, however, for holding the balance on the cock and for when I'm ready to try and untangle it... Thank you all!

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[Nucejoe]

This is not hopeless at all, matta.

Get the stud out of your hair. Remove the H/S from the wheel. Install the stud and  spring back on the bridge to unpin ths stud, 

You will be left with the spring all at your disposal. 

Use a clean white paper to lay the spring on top, insert a needle through the collet to pin the spring fixed.You are all set with no risk access to all parfs of H/S.

Regards.

[Mattaphysics]

Oh... My friends all your help was for not unfortunately... I used my device held the stud in tweezers and then pulled it down to keep it on and used a pin to try and get it unwound. First I got it to the collet but it would just keep wrapping more as the collet would spin making it even more of a mess.

So I tried taking the pin and getting the tangle to the outer coils of the hairspring. I was successful in this but I could not get the spring to untangle the stud kept getting caught so then I decided to just go right back down to the collet again. Except this time I did it even worse and the hairspring ended up breaking. I tried looking for a new one it's an as 1158 movement but the balance alone is $24 plus another $14 for shipping that's quite expensive for a balance but I don't see any alternative.

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[Nucejoe]

There are alternatives.

 Retro fitting H/S. The family consists of( as1158,1187,1190,1194)

So if you find any of the above calibers balance complete, with broken staff, the hairsprings off of them, would be a direct fit.

H/S with properties similair or "close"  to that of  as1158 would work, kinda painstaking though.

Regards