H.Nathan & Co

[tonymokumer]

G'day

My name is Tony from Newcastle Australia. 

I was left a  gold antique pocket watch in a dear friend's will. The movement is signed H.Nathan & Co. The rear cover is stamped H N & C. inside a shield followed by 18K 27773.

I had the watch checked and cleaned by a watchmaker who estimated it to be manufactured around 1860.

During the cleaning process the hairspring was broken.

The watchmaker told me that the watch is approx. 33.2 grams 18K solid gold. 16 1/2 lignes with a cylinder escapement.

The balance dia is 13.55mm.

I have been trying, unsuccessfully, for months to find out any information about H.Nathan & Co. That is how I came across this forum. Is there anybody out there who can shed any light on or has any information about the name? 

The watchmaker suggested that, unless I can find a replacement hairspring, it would be best to scrap the watch for its gold content.

Since it is such a beautiful timepiece with fond memories attached, I definitely want it repaired to its working order. So the second question, is it still possible to find a replacement hairspring and how would I go about sourcing it?

Any help would be enormously appreciated.

Tony

 

[clockboy]

Replacing the hairspring is not a difficult job. If the balance staff is broken then it is highly likely that a new one will have to be made. If I was you I would find a competent watch repairer for another opinion. 

[Nucejoe]

Hi, keep the old hairspring, the collet and stud.

Genuine restoration comes first.

If you didn,t find a genune replacement and a hairspring is to be made " last resort" , the old one provides nearly all the required info.

Provide pictures.

Regards

 

 

 

 

[oldhippy]

This is known as a five bar movement and normally Swiss.  It has a cylinder escapement, which is not a balance staff. With a cylinder escapement, it is not compensated there for depending on the temperature of the weather it will gain or lose time. The hairspring will not be easy to replace, as you have to have the same size of collet and thickness and length of hairspring.

Am I right when you say the hairspring broke when the watch repairer was cleaning it. If that is right and he is a professional watch repairer, he is responsible for your watch and he is the one to put it right.   

[clockboy]

I have a stash of hairsprings so replacing a HS is not to much of an issue for me anyway. However as oldhippy says if it was broken by the repairer then he should fix his breakage.

[Nucejoe]

Fiinding a used genuine H/S is not impossible and we don,t know if the broken one was original. 

Tony talks of repair to it's working order. Allow me to point out that a none genuine H/S devalues the watch. 

The watch is precious to tony, the guy damages it and proposes to scrap for it's gold. 

Better presntation of the watch by pictures is useful to give the owner best overall assessment and advice.

Regards

 

 

[oldhippy]

Allow me to point out that a none genuine H/S devalues the watch.  Sorry you are wrong. A watch going and keeping time is more valuable then one that does not work. I also expect the H/spring would be the original. H/srings for these watches are not interchangeable none of the parts are. They might look the same to the eye but when it comes to fitting you notice it won't work.

[tonymokumer]

To all who took the time to reply, Thank you.

The watch repairer finally made a new hairspring and the watch is working like a charm. It is a beautiful piece. I have attached some photos.

I have had no luck in finding the origins of H Nathan & Co, Geneve. Anybody out there have any idea?

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year.

 

 

 

[oldhippy]

I have looked in Watch and clockmakers vol 1 and 2. Sorry to say he is not listed. Nice to know you have it working.

[wls1971]

H.Nathan and co where part of a group of companies owned by the Australian company called Hoffnung and Co their buisness was primarily based around the importing and sale of goods through catalogue they where importers among other things of sewing machines and parts, and Swiss and American watches and all forms of gold and silver jewellery and display cases for retail jewellers.

They where a very large concern and supplied goods in Australia, New Zealand and Tasmania , Fiji and Honolulu and had huge warehouses across Australia.

H.Nathan and Co was the company's London based subsiduary they where responsible for purchasing goods in Europe and America and arranging the importation to Australia they would have been responsible for the purchasing and importation of your watch, they would not have been the manufacturer of your watch as such but would have sourced them from manufacturers in Switzerland and stamped them with the company name, the earliest reference to Hoffnung and co I can Find is 1872.

I think they would have been the Australian equivalent of Sear's Roebuck catalogue in America.

Just to add to the above since writing this I have learned the company was formed in 1851 and went out of buisness in 1980.

Edited December 14, 2018 by wls1971
more info added

[tonymokumer]

Thank you wls1971 for the lead. Great job.

What I read since your post is that Henry Nathan loaned Sigmund Hoffnung 500 pounds to purchase goods and ship them to the antipodeans in 1851.

Hoffnung became a very successful and prosperous businessman and went in partnership with Henry Nathan as his European supplier.

Hoffnung had his own jewelry mark: SH & Co.

Thanks again.

 

[wls1971]

This google book is a title called "A glance at Australia" written in 1880 it gives a full overview of the company and history of Hoffnung and Co and many other major Australian company's of the time :

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=QgRLAQAAIAAJ&pg=PA353&lpg=PA353&dq=food+to+the+south+1880+hoffnung+and+co&source=bl&ots=ZGM3pWsrml&sig=7k1xfA20hCegikQR8Nuq_8vQP1Y&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiCx-zbzKDfAhUBQhUIHXtZCQgQ6AEwAHoECAQQAQ#v=onepage&q=food to the south 1880 hoffnung and co&f=false