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National Electric Watch Cleaning Machine


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On 8/19/2018 at 9:24 AM, chadders1966 said:

Cleaning fluid can be easily contaminated, as you have guessed looks like yours might have been. As others have said the fluid goes yellow/brown with normal use. Personally I peg out before and after cleaning just to be sure. All watch parts go in the cleaning machine, case parts in the ultrasonic. I find the machine alone does a much better job than the ultrasonic alone used to do. I also keep a spare jar of used cleaning fluid to preclean dirty movements in before going in the machine - the dirtier parts are, the quicker the cleaning fluid is used up.

I use the cleanliness of the parts coming out to judge when the fluid needs replacing, not a set amount of watches cleaned but whatever you do it does need replacing regularly. If I remember correctly the jars on your machine are particularly big so unfortunately go through a lot of fluid. As John said about 5 minutes should be enough for cleaning cycle. Also don't try and get it to spin too fast during cleaning. On my machine I have the speed for cleaning set just below the speed at which foam would start to form.

Stephen

Does anyone use 'Extra Fine Watch Cleaning Solution' from L&R? 

I've changed the basket and placed the plate in on its own and it still comes out with a film of muck on it. I made sure that I kept the speed down to avoid any bubbles, but not so slow. I did change the cleaning solution and this one has turned a yellowy colour.

This is getting infuriating now. I don't know what I'm doing wrong, apart from trying changing the cleaning solution. But that's an expensive experiment.

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I have used it for a few years now with great results. Have you tried cleaning a different watch. Thinking it might be something already impregnated onto the watch. The fluid still looks to be the wrong colour. When fresh it is a very light brown colour. Also noticed how fast your basket is turning seems a bit fast. 

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I was looking at my bottle of cleaning fluid and I'm using 111 Ultrasonic Watch Cleaning Solution Ammoniated. I'll have to check at work I'm not sure which fluid were using. But it's interesting according to the material safety sheets it is a trade secret the actual quantity of the chemicals but both solutions are identical in chemical makeup just slightly differing quantities of each of the chemicals.

then the cleaning fluid color is it correct? The original gallon that I purchased a very long time ago seem to lost its effectiveness so I purchased another gallon. Even that is at least five years old. So looking at the color of each the original is a very dark translucent yellow more perhaps of a orange color. The newer is a nice crystal clear yellow. 

then rotation speed Omega has a documentation probably just about everything but this one is on cleaning. For spinning speed in the cleaning solution there are two separate times depending upon whether you're using ultrasonic or not. So with ultrasonic 20 revolutions per minute without 200 to 300 revolutions per minute.

I don't suppose you have any other watches to clean? Preferably a watch that's already clean or as an alternative find some clean metal to clean? The example of clean metal would be to find a modern coin made out of one of the nickel alloys although I'm not sure he could probably clean just about any metal coin pick one that shiny and clean and run it through the cleaning machine and see if it's shiny afterwords. Otherwise clean a clean watch.

 

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7 hours ago, oldhippy said:

 

Why have you wired the movement to the basket? The basket is going too fast.

I wired it that way so I could rule out anything getting in the way of the clean/rinse solutions.

Why does the speed make a difference? I thought it was important to keep it just under the speed that bubbles form.

7 hours ago, clockboy said:

I have used it for a few years now with great results. Have you tried cleaning a different watch. Thinking it might be something already impregnated onto the watch. The fluid still looks to be the wrong colour. When fresh it is a very light brown colour. Also noticed how fast your basket is turning seems a bit fast. 

The fluid was a white wine colour, but went this colour after the first wash with the replacement basket that I thoroughly cleaned first. So John, are you saying between 200 to 300 rpm? Can someone tell me what solution they are using and at what speed. I'll try a different watch and a coin tomorrow. Good suggestion it might be something impregnated on that plate. The brass wheels come out shining, although not totally clean. I'm starting to think it's the solution rather than my technique or the machine, but could be wrong.

Thanks for all the help guys... much appreciated!

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I've just bought this on eBay for £200 to start fresh with a completely different setup. It even comes with a spare basket and it looks like that cleaning solution has gone the right colour, unlike mine. I found I was spending so much time and effort in trying to get mine to work, it was costing me too much in wasted hours. The value of this machine far outweighs the price! Just hope it bloody works now.... lol

I'll let you know how it goes. If it fails, I'm going to give up all my worldly possessions and live in a dark cave pondering where it all went wrong...

Benray watch cleaning machine.jpg

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4 hours ago, oldhippy said:

 

There good I had an old one for cleaning clock screws in old cleaning fluid and rinse. I don’t think you will have any problems with that. Not a bad price and it looks in good condition.  

Thanks oldhippy, It was only posted for about half an hour before I snapped it up. There is one thing for trawling the internet in the small hours! Good to hear it worked well for you. Did you try any clock or watch parts in it or only screws? There seems to be a shed load for sale in the States, but they look a bit ropey and have seen better days.

One site I came across on my hunt for a cleaning machine, was this website Stateside: http://www.daveswatchparts.com/index.html which looks promising for other tools, although he does have an interesting looking ultrasonic cleaner. I was going to contact him in a couple weeks or so when my bank balance looks healthier,  about a poising tool and maybe some mainspring winders. The only thing I don't like is getting caught out with import charges. Everything I get from China is always marked as 'gift' which gets around most of that.

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I have used this guy before. Very good indeed but a bit slow with delivery times to the UK. Always worth a visit to see what he has. £200 for an Elma is an absolute  bargain if you are still having issues it is most defiantly not your equipment. It is the fluid or whats already on the watch contaminating the fluid.

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All these fluids and fancy machines! I use Naphtha, two brushes, an ultrasonic final rinse with Naphtha and Acetone for balances and escape. I do peg out to be sure of clean jewel holes etc. This basic method  has never let me down although I am no expert but just a jobber. Just saying.

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34 minutes ago, ecodec said:

All these fluids and fancy machines! I use Naphtha, two brushes, an ultrasonic final rinse with Naphtha and Acetone for balances and escape. I do peg out to be sure of clean jewel holes etc. This basic method  has never let me down although I am no expert but just a jobber. Just saying.

It's a good way to do it. I was using naphtha (lighter fluid) and IPA as a rinse with an ultrasonic but wanted to find something more efficient. The initial outlay of £200 for watch cleaning machine and £100 on solutions is a good investment that will pay for itself pretty quickly. 15 to 30 minutes to clean a watch by machine is the selling point for me. Doing it by hand is a good discipline to have and you definitely get to know what is clean and what is dirty that way

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Thanks oldhippy, It was only posted for about half an hour before I snapped it up. There is one thing for trawling the internet in the small hours! Good to hear it worked well for you. Did you try any clock or watch parts in it or only screws?

Platform escapement parts and the better small clocks like looping and swiza all nicely cleaned.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I've got my Elma cleaning machine today and when taking off the old plug I noticed it was wired in a weird way. Has anyone come across this. The blue and black are going to neutral. The red goes to earth and the white wire attaches to the fuse, indicating live. I'm feeling a bit nervous about connecting that red to earth, even though it came from there. 

Any thoughts?

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Just wired it back the same way as I found it, which is something I haven't come across before. I could pull it apart and rewire it, but I'm loathed to do that having spent so long re-wiring the last cleaning machine and wasting a lot of time getting it to work properly.

Surely someone has one of these machines, which I'm guessing is wired in exactly the same way. I would really appreciate if someone took the plug off theirs and confirm I'm not about to burn the house down. Thanks...

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I was thinking... This is German and old, so I came across some old German wiring, which is quite amazing.

Red = Earth

White = Neutral

Black = Live

Enigma solved, apart from I still have a black and blue going into the Live in the plug, so the blue German wiring must denote Live as well?

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41 minutes ago, JohnR725 said:

I have a link that should help with the confusion of what color goes with.

 

https://www.allaboutcircuits.com/textbook/reference/chpt-2/wiring-color-codes-infographic/

Thanks John, but it doesn't show the 'old' German wiring, with white being Live. I'm not sure when this wiring pre-dates, but if you look at the last pic I posted of 'old' German wiring being connected to present day EU wiring in which we all know. This old German wiring has Red as Earth.

It's a very helpful PDF to have, so many thanks for that. I'm sure it will come in handy in the future.

Edited by Jon
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  • 8 months later...
On 5/24/2017 at 4:09 PM, JMElam said:

I hope you're all well! 

I have just picked up a National Electric Watch Cleaning Machine, all works fine apart from the heating element. I have a new one to put in. I will also be stripping cleaning and re painting the machine. 

 

My question is does anybody know where I can get some more baskets that will fit this machine? It only came with one small basket. 

As a matter of interest, may I ask which replacement heater did you use? Would a spare from an almanac work?

( I realize this is an old post, but hopefully an answer is possible.)

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  • 5 weeks later...

Hi all.

I have got a National Electric Watch Cleaner and as expected the heating element is bug***d (sorry, not working). Everything else is OK and the motor and bearings are nice smooth with good control from the speed dial. With a bit of TLC (and rattle-can black) it will provide me with good service.

Does anyone know if the heating element from the Elma RM80 (90) is a good match for this machine? It basically just needs to operate at mains voltage and fit into the space where the old element used to fit. I could use it without the heater and just bodge something with an old hairdryer to provide a warm airflow, but I am hoping that the Elma element could be used. Has anyone ever tried this?

I am going to re-wire it and makes sure it is up to current safety standards, as it still has its original (seriously old now) wiring scheme. New Jar seals will be needed but I have some aviation fuel/chemical grade 3mm rubber gasket material I can hand cut to suit, so that will be OK. The jars and lids are sound and just need cleaning (and the seals). And it has a complete set of baskets, which is a plus.

I have included a photo of the old heating element for a size reference. Unfortunately for me, Elma do not state size of their replacement element.

 

 

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