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I don't normally touch other peoples' watches but on this occasion a good friend asked if I could have a look at 2 of his 50 year old watches and hopefully improve them.  Both dials and movements are signed Winegartens and one case has Dennisons stamped inside the back.  Both movements run quite well despite never having been serviced.  If possible I would like to find service documentation for these but of course I need to know something about the movements first.  Can anyone help me to identify them please?

 

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No idea regarding movements.

A watch is a watch. You can strip them down to parts, photograph the order. Clean in hot water and ammonia, then dip in shellite.
Black Moebius grease for barrel and mainspring. Moebius 8000 for slow moving parts and 9010 for fast moving parts like escape wheel.
Pallet lever doesnt require oil usually. 9010 on both ends of balance staff. I usually put a bit of oil on tip of screwholes to prevent seizing.

There is nothing else to it for older watches, you won't find obscure service guides unless they are ETA, Omega, Rolex, or similar movements.

The main thing is strict cleanliness and robust cleaning technique,

Newer more high performance watches require adherence to service charts for optimum performance between service.
An ETA 2836 for example will benefit from correct grease to pallet jewels, high speed oil for high speed parts. Correct grease/oils in keyless and date mechanism. Mainspring either gets grease or no grease depending on the watchmaker (I use grease).

Chronographs again require more thought for moving parts.

A good start is to google "Moebius Oil chart for watch movements" - it goes through different size movements and oil recommendations.

When I started with cheap watches such as the ones you posted, I only used Moebius 8000 as it was cheap and fits all purpose. Service interval atleast 2 years (many watches still running to spec with 8000).

I'd soak the cases in ammonia and water to remove sediment, then polish gently by hand with Autosol or a buffing compound.

The crystals will need soak in above to remove crud, then sand with 400/800/1200/1500/2000 (wet sand) and then polish with PolyWatch (found on eBay).
The best way to glue them back in is with GS Crystal glue (ebay as well).

Straps are either ebay or Cousins (the open ended ones for the 2nd watch can be hard to find, ebay is okay - look for "open ended leather strap").

Feel free to ask more  questions.

Edited by AlexeiJ1
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Winegartens with some watches used AS movements. If you are able to remove both from there cases, then remove the balance complete. You might find some ID around the balance area. If not, then remove the hands and dial, see if the I D is there. If nothing then take good clear photos showing the keyless work. That is how we I D movements.

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Thanks for your help, with which I think I can answer my own question - though confirmation from the experts would be nice!

The square gold watch has a symbol under the balance with a "P" in it and "330" underneath, which I think might be Peseux.  The SS watch has a symbol under the dial "FEF 190".  Fleurier perhaps?  A shot of the keyless works for the FEF 190 is included for info.

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    • I missed this earlier. The dial isn't going into the holder, it should sit proud of it. This is what I am currently using which I print for each different movement.    
    • I didn't think pulling to set position would work harden the spring, in that position it is stressed where the arm starts. By work hardening i meant rapid polishing at that point, a bit like polishing a pivot work hardens as it compresses the steel. I doubt polishing by hand would achieve much in that respect though. Its finished, arm polished up mostly at the join to the bridge's main body. I'm ok with it, the screw holes aren't great as i had to open them up by redrilling and positioning it was difficult, I'm not much use with a loupe, opening up with a file might be a better option for me or i could just use the correct drill size 😅. And the detent is way too deep, i had to guess that with the stem release out of position and sat on top, but i only took one measure and went for it, no slowly slowly catch your monkey 😅. First go I'm happy , well sort of, it works and thats a big thing for me, next one will have a bit more finesse.  Anyone thats interested, after filing, i used a 2000 grade home made diamond  micro file and then 20 micron film, the film is much better than wet and dry, more stable to use and doesn't shed cheap grade grit everywhere , then auto polish on a sponge pad.
    • I'm assuming that every time you set the watch you are work hardening the detent spring, maximum hardening is  where it meets the plate due to maximum deflection.   That's why it snaps there.  The Young's modulus may be the same but after it's reached its maximum yeid strength it breaks.  My mechanic engineering is very rusty, correct me if I'm wrong. 
    • Ah ok yes that makes sense to polish it where the arm starts to form from the body of the bridge, i thought you meant the underneath of all the arm.
    • this is something I've never quite understood about the some of the Swiss companies. In 1957 Omega was using 9010 for the keyless parts with epilam. there's been a slow migration towards using heavier lubrication's but still typically oils and epilam to keep them in place. When it seems like 9504 works so much better.  
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