Help identifying movements

[KayMan]

I don't normally touch other peoples' watches but on this occasion a good friend asked if I could have a look at 2 of his 50 year old watches and hopefully improve them.  Both dials and movements are signed Winegartens and one case has Dennisons stamped inside the back.  Both movements run quite well despite never having been serviced.  If possible I would like to find service documentation for these but of course I need to know something about the movements first.  Can anyone help me to identify them please?

 

[AlexeiJ1]

No idea regarding movements.

A watch is a watch. You can strip them down to parts, photograph the order. Clean in hot water and ammonia, then dip in shellite.
Black Moebius grease for barrel and mainspring. Moebius 8000 for slow moving parts and 9010 for fast moving parts like escape wheel.
Pallet lever doesnt require oil usually. 9010 on both ends of balance staff. I usually put a bit of oil on tip of screwholes to prevent seizing.

There is nothing else to it for older watches, you won't find obscure service guides unless they are ETA, Omega, Rolex, or similar movements.

The main thing is strict cleanliness and robust cleaning technique,

Newer more high performance watches require adherence to service charts for optimum performance between service.
An ETA 2836 for example will benefit from correct grease to pallet jewels, high speed oil for high speed parts. Correct grease/oils in keyless and date mechanism. Mainspring either gets grease or no grease depending on the watchmaker (I use grease).

Chronographs again require more thought for moving parts.

A good start is to google "Moebius Oil chart for watch movements" - it goes through different size movements and oil recommendations.

When I started with cheap watches such as the ones you posted, I only used Moebius 8000 as it was cheap and fits all purpose. Service interval atleast 2 years (many watches still running to spec with 8000).

I'd soak the cases in ammonia and water to remove sediment, then polish gently by hand with Autosol or a buffing compound.

The crystals will need soak in above to remove crud, then sand with 400/800/1200/1500/2000 (wet sand) and then polish with PolyWatch (found on eBay).
The best way to glue them back in is with GS Crystal glue (ebay as well).

Straps are either ebay or Cousins (the open ended ones for the 2nd watch can be hard to find, ebay is okay - look for "open ended leather strap").

Feel free to ask more  questions.

Edited August 6, 2018 by AlexeiJ1

[sstakoff]

It looks like there is something stamped under the balance??? Can you get a better shot of that? Good news is that servicing these should be quite straightforward I would think. 

[oldhippy]

Winegartens with some watches used AS movements. If you are able to remove both from there cases, then remove the balance complete. You might find some ID around the balance area. If not, then remove the hands and dial, see if the I D is there. If nothing then take good clear photos showing the keyless work. That is how we I D movements.

[KayMan]

Thanks for your help, with which I think I can answer my own question - though confirmation from the experts would be nice!

The square gold watch has a symbol under the balance with a "P" in it and "330" underneath, which I think might be Peseux.  The SS watch has a symbol under the dial "FEF 190".  Fleurier perhaps?  A shot of the keyless works for the FEF 190 is included for info.

[oldhippy]

You are right.

Correct Peseux 330 very common movement. Should still be plenty of parts.

Fabrique d'Ebauche de Fleurier 190 again should still be able to get parts.

[KayMan]

Thanks all, I now have all the info I need.