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I don't know how you could be sure if the epilame has been removed. In the past when I've gotten it on a pivot by accident* I take a piece of pegwood, flat end, and press it down on the pivot while turning it. Again, not sure if it really removed it, but- years ago I did some watches for a small manufacture that had a reputation of the balance pivots eating in to the cap jewels. The watchmakers there told me to do the above with pegwood; it seems there was some invisible abrasive embedded in the pivots of these staffs, and the pegwood trick did work in sparing the cap jewels.

 

It used to be that the manufacturers and Moebius said treat the whole fork. Somewhere along the line they changed that and say just treat the jewels. I know some watchmakers who still treat the whole fork, and they don't seem to have issues. I've also seen examples of forks with wear in the fork horns, apparently from having epilame there. So I err on the side of caution: I grab the fork in one set of tweezers, then dip some closed #5s in the Fixodrop, then dip the stones in the Fixodrop that's been sucked between the tweezer tips by capillarity. A friend of mine uses a tiny artist brush to apply it to the stones.

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3 hours ago, Paul80 said:

Any thoughts on how I can check it is actually removed by my method.

Yes, I think so. Apply a bit of oil on the pivot before the EVEFLEX Rubber cleaning to see how the oil behaves. If the oil forms a drop (bump) on the pivot and doesn't spread the Fixodrop is doing its thing. Then do the EVEFLEX Rubber cleaning and apply the same amount of oil to the pivot again. If the oil spreads the Fixodrop is gone. If the oil still forms a drop (bump) the Fixodrop is still active. If you test it, I'd be very interested to hear about the result.

EDIT: Mark treats an entire Rolex fork in Fixodrop in one of his latest videos like it was the most natural and safe thing in the world. You can see it here, but I'm more on the side of @nickelsilver, i.e. I only treat the stones.

Edited by VWatchie
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1 hour ago, Paul80 said:

Yep, only been here for 6 months and already learned that just when you think you are doing it right someone will soon be along to explain why you are wrong again.

out of curiosity which would you prefer assuming that you're doing it right or having someone pointing it out to you may be doing wrong?  then yes watch repair has a lot of opinions.

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There is no wrong or right. I used to tune my own racing motorbikes and sometimes when I f*ck*d something up really badly we had a unsuspected surprise and it ran like hell.

It is all a matter of experience

and luckily there are nice people here that want to share theirs.

 

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3 hours ago, nickelsilver said:

It used to be that the manufacturers and Moebius said treat the whole fork. Somewhere along the line they changed that and say just treat the jewels.

the amusing problem with lubrication Epilam etc. is so much variation over time. For instance Omega 1957 I have highlighted something that you'll find interesting.

notice what they say about the pallet fork including the pallet stones. then later documents show only the stones are being treated by basically holding the pallet fork and just dipping the stones in the fluid.

3 hours ago, nickelsilver said:

I've also seen examples of forks with wear in the fork horns, apparently from having epilame there. So I err on the side of caution:

the used to be a website with lots of pretty pictures that I conveniently not finding. I was also in a lecture once where someone was talking about epilam and worried about the same problem of rust. If you take a glass of water toss some ice cubes in and you're in a humid area you'll soon have condensation on your glass. The concern was the same thing happens when you use Epilam.

We also end up with some minor issues here Epilam is a pretty generic term. The solvent has been a whole bunch a different things over time it's supposed to be less volatile currently versus what it was in the past. That supposedly changes things dramatically and the procedures they used for drawing change

so the fear was with an extremely volatile substance but as it evaporates it has a cooling effect and there's a concern of rust forming from the condensation. I was one set a lecture where the watchmaker talked about the shop he worked that when they used Epilam they would have a hairdryer ready nice and hot so when they pulled out the Epilam it up immediately was dried with a hairdryer. Because they wanted it to dry really really fast with zero condensation. Where my understanding with the new stuff is you basically just toss it all hot air dryer it it's not a big thing.

Then the website that had the pretty pictures they conveniently not finding. Seem to think that the condensation cause the rust and you could see rust all over the roller jewel before corn and basically the fork and even the roller jewel worth totally destroyed from the rust.

So the stories become almost like urban legends and since I've seen the pictures it's a little more than urban legend. But it was a super prevailing problem it seems like to be a much bigger concern over the problem.

then as far as removing Epilam how many watches can you do? Some of it has to do with the chemical properties of the washing solution certain solutions are bad for Epilam. Omega's concern currently is which will not affect most of you is the modern cleaning machines do a really nice job of cleaning and they are now recommending Epilam every single servicing because you wash it off every single thought. Whereas the methods used in this group that Epilam is probably good for several washings. Then and I think it's been covered somewhere in the discussion before I gave pictures snipped out other document they were on their watches through the cleaning machine before it goes to the dryer they remove a few items and then it goes into an Epilam bath they may have a separate machine for that and then it's dried.

 

Epilam Omega 1957.JPG

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9 hours ago, JohnR725 said:

out of curiosity which would you prefer assuming that you're doing it right or having someone pointing it out to you may be doing wrong?  then yes watch repair has a lot of opinions.

Or having someone tell you you are doing it wrong when you were doing it right all along.

Just because someone thinks they are right does not mean they are.

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My understanding is that Fixodrop gets removed immidiately were ever friction occurs. Otherwise you wouldn’t want it on the impulse faces of the pallets. So no extra rubbing is required.

Edited by Kalanag
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26 minutes ago, Kalanag said:

My understanding is that Fixodrop gets removed immidiately were ever friction occurs. Otherwise you wouldn’t want it on the impulse faces of the pallets. So no extra rubbing is required.

Ah thanks for that. Man oh man there's so much conflicting info out there haha.

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14 hours ago, VWatchie said:

Yes, I think so. Apply a bit of oil on the pivot before the EVEFLEX Rubber cleaning to see how the oil behaves. If the oil forms a drop (bump) on the pivot and doesn't spread the Fixodrop is doing its thing. Then do the EVEFLEX Rubber cleaning and apply the same amount of oil to the pivot again. If the oil spreads the Fixodrop is gone. If the oil still forms a drop (bump) the Fixodrop is still active. If you test it, I'd be very interested to hear about the result.

EDIT: Mark treats an entire Rolex fork in Fixodrop in one of his latest videos like it was the most natural and safe thing in the world. You can see it here, but I'm more on the side of @nickelsilver, i.e. I only treat the stones.

I am actually on holiday in Turkey  at the moment so will test as you suggest next week when I am back.

On holiday reading watch forums, how addicted must I be. 😉

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On 6/15/2022 at 7:32 AM, Paul80 said:

As Boley dont supply to us mere mortals, anyone know where I can order the Dr Tillwich Antispread in the UK or an EU supplier that ships to the UK.

Thanks

Beco Technic but the import rights will probably kill the difference for you. I had to switch suppliers for many things as I use to buy most in the UK beforehand. All thanks to some greedy EUssr politicians. 😥

 

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12 hours ago, Paul80 said:

Or having someone tell you

You need to be able to discern who you are taking advice from.

12 hours ago, Paul80 said:

Just because someone thinks they are right

Depends on why they think they're right. Have they been servicing watches for 20 years after going to watchmaking school in Switzerland? Or have they only been watching YouTube videos and reading online forums for a month?

Everyone has an opinion.

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On 6/17/2022 at 12:32 PM, Paul80 said:

I am actually on holiday in Turkey  at the moment so will test as you suggest next week when I am back.

Thanks, I look forward to it!

On 6/17/2022 at 12:32 PM, Paul80 said:

On holiday reading watch forums, how addicted must I be. 😉

The next best thing when you are free and do not have access to the workbench! I'll likely be in the same situation next summer for six weeks. I'm going to miss the workbench badly.

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7 hours ago, Paul80 said:

SWMBO Has a lot to answer for dragging me somewhere hot and sunny 

 

I stay in a hot and sunny place. Except it’s now winter and it’s colder than usual, which is odd. I miss the hot and sunny; I don’t know how you guys in the UK do it - it must be depressing. That probably explains why the Brits complain so much 🤣😛

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3 hours ago, gbyleveldt said:

I miss the hot and sunny; I don’t know how you guys in the UK do it - it must be depressing.

Don't you pay attention to the news? We had a heat wave on Friday... before that thunderstorm on Saturday. 

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35 minutes ago, Plato said:

Don't you pay attention to the news? We had a heat wave on Friday... before that thunderstorm on Saturday. 

UK news? Nooo I can't watch that haha. When you say heatwave, you mean it actually got to 25C?

6 minutes ago, Paul80 said:

We are just waiting for global warming to arrive so we can go swimming in the sea without needing a woolly hat and scarf 😁

Aren't most of the beaches in the UK rocks and pebbles? All fine and well when you have a wave bowl you over and you get a face full of sand, but it'll suck even more on a pebble beach...

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Rather a face full of pebbles than a face full of volcanic rock the beaches in the Mediterranean holiday spots are full of.

Give me soft pebbles anyday.

We do have some fine sandy beaches, but they tend to be the ones that are so windy the stones have been blown away. 😎😉

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I haven't used epilame (yet) due to its price. Anyway, last week I saw this video and noticed that the watchmaker used the bottle to treat the escape wheel, but a syringe to put a drop of epilame on the pallet stones, so it doesn't reach the pivots.

I don't know if this is a good practice or not, but I thought I'd share it here. What do you think about it?

 

 

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4 hours ago, aac58 said:

I haven't used epilame (yet) due to its price. Anyway, last week I saw this video and noticed that the watchmaker used the bottle to treat the escape wheel, but a syringe to put a drop of epilame on the pallet stones, so it doesn't reach the pivots.

I don't know if this is a good practice or not, but I thought I'd share it here. What do you think about it?

 

That makes a lot of sense! Epilame is needed on the pallets only.

By the way: This guy has some very decent watch repair tutorials. I like him.

https://youtube.com/channel/UCXV8h3I9pnfZuDpg6xEM_8w

Edited by Kalanag
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2 hours ago, aac58 said:

a syringe to put a drop of epilame on the pallet stones, so it doesn't reach the pivots.

I've tried that method too, but just like in the video, way too much Epilame spreads onto the pallet fork staff. That may or may not be a problem. Isn't the Epilame spreading to the pivots as well? It's hard to see in the video. So, I use a fine paintbrush and just let one or two bristles stroke the stones, and I repeat it a few times to ensure that I get a sufficient amount on.

On 6/19/2022 at 9:37 AM, Paul80 said:

We are just waiting for global warming to arrive

In Sweden, we generally just can't get enough of global warming. Anyway, we're supposed to be boiled within the next decade or so, so I guess I'm just being a bit impatient. 😆

5 hours ago, Kalanag said:

I just tested „Dr.Tillwich Antispread“

Well, that looks very promising. Thanks for sharing! I bet it's just 20 % of the cost of Moebius Epilame? Where do you buy it?

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