Seiko Etachron regulator

[sblantipodi]

Hi all,
I'm a watch noob but sometimes I read something on watches, I bought a timegrapher because I like having
my watches working at their best.

I bought the Weishi NO. 1000 Timegrapher, a cheap one (250€ with shipping) but very functional.
The Weishi NO.1000 has all the main features you may want:
1) possibility to adjust the sensibility of the microphone
2) possibility to set the lift angle
3) it shows the beat rate
4) it shows the amplitude
5) it shows the beat error
6) it keeps track of four average beat rate during the measurement (this feature is available in new software version only)


Let's see how it looks:




and here a photo of all the tool I used to regulate my watch without any scratch.



As you can see in the photo below I have used:
1) watch case opener, I prefer the 2pins one over the three pins Jaxa, very easyer to use and IMHO very easier to not scratch the case with 2pins.
2) a simple loop, a 3x one
3) a watch case holder, it is mandatory to open the case without scratching it
4) a little screwdriver (0.9mm)
5) silicon grease for lubricating gaskets
6) the timegrapher
7) a little of patience

Here the watch case holder in action:



And here the watches I calibrated.

Seiko Black Monster SRP307J1 with a Seiko 4R36A caliber



And a classy Seiko SARB033 with a 6R15C caliber.




Both calibers are similar sharing some components and some features.
They beat at 21600bph, the lift angle is 53° on both calibers, they both hack and handwind, same automatic winding mechanism.

The acceptable daily rate for the 4R36 is:
-35/+45 seconds a day,
+/- 30 seconds day isochronism fault,
+/- 30 maximum positional variation,
40 hours power reserve (SPRON110 mainspring).
 

The acceptable daily rate for the 6R15 is:
-15/+25 seconds a day,
+/- 10 seconds day isochronism fault,
+/- 15 maximum positional variation,
50 hours power reserve (SPRON510 mainspring).

Thanks to the 6R15 the SARB is less prone to positional variation and less prone to isochronism fault.
The difference in performance once calibrated and when calibrating is big. The better mainspring and the better hairspring does a good job here.

Let's start calibrating the Seiko Monster.



Here what I have done in the correct order (I post an image just to show you the parts where I worked on):



1) I rotated the regulator pin counterclockwise in order to FIX the mainspring inside the regulator pin
2) I adjusted the beat error by moving the stud support, checking the timegrapher on every move, I tried to get 0.0ms beat error at least in one position
3) I adjusted the beat rate by moving the regulator, always checking the timegrapher on every move, I adjusted the rate by taking an average of the six positions.

My job consists on working at the PC so my watch daily position is quite always the same.
This are the Monster's results before calibration with a daily rate that varies between +9 to +14 seconds (this watch was regulated before by a professional watchmaker)



and this are the results after the calibration:



now the daily rate varies between -3 to +2 seconds a day, I don't need to reset the watch often ;)

Now let's calibrate the Seiko SARB033 doing the same things:




This are the Spirit's results before calibration with a daily rate that varies between +9 to +14 seconds (the watch is new and never calibrated before that doesn't done an excellent job)



and this are the results after the calibration:



now the daily rate varies between 0 to +1 seconds a day.

The 6R15 on the SARB is really easier to calibrate and the beat rate is really more consistent than the 4R36 in the monster.
The 6R15 beat rate is really constant when the watch is laying in the same position, the beat rate of the 4R36 fluctuates a lot more.

This is the proof on how consistent is the rate of the SARB, no fluctuations at all.



The Monster rate fluctuates a bit also when the watch is laying in the same position.

That's all ;)

[bobm12]

Hi sblantipodi,

 

I liked your article very, very much. Thank you for posting it! It definitely touches a subject a lot of people would like to here more and me, particularly, never have enough! Much appreciated.

 

Cheers,

 

Bob

 

PS. How do you manage to keep your watches so shiny?

[sblantipodi]

errata corrige, the daily rate of the SARB prior to the regulation was -10 to -8 seconds a day

[sblantipodi]

Hi sblantipodi,

 

I liked your article very, very much. Thank you for posting it! It definitely touches a subject a lot of people would like to here more and me, particularly, never have enough! Much appreciated.

 

Cheers,

 

Bob

 

PS. How do you manage to keep your watches so shiny?

 

Thank you, I appreciate the comment.

To make my watch shiny I simply do the shower with them :)

[sblantipodi]

Is there a reason why I can't edit my own post here? :)

I add two images that explains better this part of the first post,

I'm referring to this parts of the calibration

 

1) I rotated the regulator pin counterclockwise in order to FIX the mainspring inside the regulator pin

 

here what I have done exactly:

The regulator pin must fix the hairspring in this way:



this was the initial situation of my watch and that was the cause of the big fluctuations in rate (assuming that the watch is laying in the same position)

 

Mark, the boss of this forum, doesn't talked about this part on his guides about regulating a watch, I hope to see a video with some suggestion by mark on how to do it at best.

[SSTEEL]

Thats quite interesting, the latter part, the movements I work on, have rollers either side of the hair spring in the regulator pin, thus enabling adjustment without having to fix their position on the hair spring.

Edited April 26, 2015 by SSTEEL

[sblantipodi]

Thats quite interesting, the latter part, the movements I work on, have rollers either side of the hair spring in the regulator pin, thus enabling adjustment without having to fix their position on the hair spring.

 

can you explain it with an image or with other words please? I don't catched it.

[SSTEEL]

Instead of there being a split pin, theres too polished pins, which the hair spring is manipulated through, not pinched like the one you have done, I had to admit, its the first time I have seen anyone do as you have.  The hair spring should not be locked down at the point circled in green.  I maybe wrong, but as said, never see this done before, so may vary from movement to movement?

 

Edited April 26, 2015 by SSTEEL

[sblantipodi]

Instead of there being a split pin, theres too polished pins, which the hair spring is manipulated through, not pinched like the one you have done, I had to admit, its the first time I have seen anyone do as you have.  The hair spring should not be locked down at the point circled in green.  I maybe wrong, but as said, never see this done before, so may vary from movement to movement?

 

 

 

as you can see in the official Seiko tech guide:

http://service.seiko.com.au/i/seiko/documents/technicalguides/6R15B.pdf

 

seiko suggest the minimal clearance... please see page 15 of the linked guide.

I hope to see a Mark video on this. can we ask him this?

[SSTEEL]

I see, quite different from ETA's I work on.

 

Hair spring manipulation by Micky.!, on Flickr

Edited April 26, 2015 by SSTEEL

[canwdarose]

Are you saying aligning the regulator reduces the variation? New to watch repair, but I would expect the regulator's key function of precisely controlling the length, and therefore period or rate, would mean capturing the spring with a slight twist would be more accurate so the spring had a definite contact point on the regulator fork. Otherwise, as the balance rotates, and the spring changes diameter, there is the chance the spring moves radially inside the regulator fork, and the working length may vary depending on the rotation direction of the spring, which would bias the error to either + or - seconds.

Regardless, amazing you're regulating to that degree - I'm still getting through the basics. Great macro photos BTW, and keep sharing. And I'd like to see a video from Mark, on the topic, too.

B

[sblantipodi]

Are you saying aligning the regulator reduces the variation? New to watch repair, but I would expect the regulator's key function of precisely controlling the length, and therefore period or rate, would mean capturing the spring with a slight twist would be more accurate so the spring had a definite contact point on the regulator fork. Otherwise, as the balance rotates, and the spring changes diameter, there is the chance the spring moves radially inside the regulator fork, and the working length may vary depending on the rotation direction of the spring, which would bias the error to either + or - seconds.

Regardless, amazing you're regulating to that degree - I'm still getting through the basics. Great macro photos BTW, and keep sharing. And I'd like to see a video from Mark, on the topic, too.

B

 

The two photos of the regulator PIN are the only one that aren't mine, I tooked it on the net just to explain the concept,

I don't have such a good camera.

 

Adjusting the regulator pin reduces the variation of the beat rate on the same position.

 

When the watch is laying in a position, suppose dial up, the beat rate of the watch varies of few seconds.

 

My SARB for example has an average beat rate of +3seconds a day when dial up but this rate varies a little between +2 to +4 during time.

When the regulator pin was in the wrong position thie difference in beat rate in the same position was greater.

I don't know if you understood my bad explanation :D

[sblantipodi]

I add some new results.

 

Most people says that 4R36 and 6R15 are pretty equal, it's not my case, absolutely.

In addition to what I written on the first post I noticed that the isochronism is way better on 6R15.

After 12 hours from the full wind the amplitude decrease on both calibers but the 6R15 mantain the same accurcacy, same beat rate in all the positions.

4R36 changes the beat rate significantly in all the positions.

just another 2 cents. :)