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east3rn

bad performance after service

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Hi I have a movement which I think has some serious problem.

I serviced it a week ago but the timegraph shows great gap between results with dial up position and dial down position.

Also the balance seems a little shaky from horizontal view when watch is running.

What can be done to make this watch run in appropriate way?

KakaoTalk_20180711_104009529.jpg

KakaoTalk_20180711_105010850.jpg

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Oh dear thats not good.

Its looks like an older movement.. did you change the mainspring? Dont bother with anything else until you do.

When you say the balance is shaky.. can I take it that the balance rim moves up/down? That would indicate a broken balance pivot and is consistent with the fact that the watch runs ok one side up and worse the other (movement will run ok  if the good balance is on the bottom.

Good luck

Anilv

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What was the watch doing before It was serviced? In other words did you put it on the Timing machine before to get a before and after?

Then a model number of the watch would be helpful and a much better picture preferably around the balance wheel. What I'm curious about is we can't see from the picture the balance jewels do they come out if so did you take them out?

Then the timing machine results are only telling you you have a problem I don't entirely think there valid? For instance your fuzzy picture I see Arm with with hairspring pins and it looks like it's really close to the center wheel which would make the watch really fast and yet it's really slow? So close-up picture balance wheel assembly the regulating assembly would be helpful .

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What was the watch doing before It was serviced? In other words did you put it on the Timing machine before to get a before and after?
Then a model number of the watch would be helpful and a much better picture preferably around the balance wheel. What I'm curious about is we can't see from the picture the balance jewels do they come out if so did you take them out?
Then the timing machine results are only telling you you have a problem I don't entirely think there valid? For instance your fuzzy picture I see Arm with with hairspring pins and it looks like it's really close to the center wheel which would make the watch really fast and yet it's really slow? So close-up picture balance wheel assembly the regulating assembly would be helpful .

Looks like the top piviot has gone on the balance...


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On 7/11/2018 at 12:33 PM, anilv said:

Oh dear thats not good.

Its looks like an older movement.. did you change the mainspring? Dont bother with anything else until you do.

When you say the balance is shaky.. can I take it that the balance rim moves up/down? That would indicate a broken balance pivot and is consistent with the fact that the watch runs ok one side up and worse the other (movement will run ok  if the good balance is on the bottom.

Good luck

Anilv

Yes the balance wheel shakes up and down .I guess I should examine the balance pivot. Should I replace it if it is damamged?

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On 7/11/2018 at 1:02 PM, JohnR725 said:

What was the watch doing before It was serviced? In other words did you put it on the Timing machine before to get a before and after?

Then a model number of the watch would be helpful and a much better picture preferably around the balance wheel. What I'm curious about is we can't see from the picture the balance jewels do they come out if so did you take them out?

Then the timing machine results are only telling you you have a problem I don't entirely think there valid? For instance your fuzzy picture I see Arm with with hairspring pins and it looks like it's really close to the center wheel which would make the watch really fast and yet it's really slow? So close-up picture balance wheel assembly the regulating assembly would be helpful .

Yes I had put it on the timegrapher and it had lower amplitude and higher beat error. 

I will comeback with some more pictures.

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19 hours ago, oldhippy said:

I know my eye site is not that good. To me it looks like a russian movement, if it is are your sure you put the shim back, between the balance cock and bottom plate.

Hi. Yes it is a Russian movement, Molnija 3602.

I had couple of the same movement before but none of them had any shim you mentioned. 

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4 hours ago, east3rn said:

Yes I had put it on the timegrapher and it had lower amplitude and higher beat error

Usually when the amplitude goes down below a certain point the beat error goes up which is why you don't worry about the beat error until you get the amplitude up to something decent.

Then when you have the watch on the timing machine you want dial-up and dial down but at least one crowns/pendant position. That's because dial-up and dial down your resting on the end of the staff which is less friction. So at least one other position like pendant up which is typically were a pocket watche is carry any way. Then it's good when servicing especially learning to record the before and after to make sure you actually did improve things. This is also really helpful when you're learning when you discover the watch is worse afterwards.

Then I found you a link with the description of your watch. The problem with Russian watches is usually the quality is poor. Manufacturing techniques are interesting often times a shim is found under the balance bridge.

https://17jewels.info/movements-en/movements-m-en/movements-m-molnija-en/615-molnija-3602.html

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east3rn.. replacing a balance staff is possible but it takes some skill and the right tools.

Parts for russian watches are not in common supply but balance staffs should be available as this is one of the parts that usually breaks.. might take some searching though. The problem with these watches is the the quality of the components are not usually consistent and it takes some experience to trial fit and adjust the parts to fit.

Anilv

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 It looks like a malnija, either a 16 or 18 jewels version. 

You may want to take into consideration that these are not high dollar peices if it indeed turn out to be faulty staff and someone asks good money for the staff.

 The up and down move or jump of the balance could also be caused if the roller jewel engages wirh or hits the pallet fork jaw upon entery  into the fork jaws or exit.

The pivit tip can slide out of the jewel hole if the staff has axial play for any reason and in particulare worndown short staff.

Oldhippy's shim senario

Damaged hairspring formation

Wish you a joyful experience with fixing it.

 

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