Jump to content

Bergon Cannon Pinion Remover Not Working. Help needed!


VWatchie

Recommended Posts

I probably thought about it for a year, before pulling the trigger on a Bergeon 4854 Cannon Pinion Remover, thinking expensive but that it would be the ultimate tool for the job. Especially so having seen Mark Lovick use this tool in his videos, for example this video.

Well, it certainly didn’t work out the way I was expecting. It simply won’t pull the cannon pinion. I’ve recorded a video of it here.

I don’t think I’m doing anything wrong, and I don’t think the remover has any parts missing as I took it apart in an attempt to figure out how it works. It seems to be a simple enough design to understand. Anyway, I guess I could be wrong about that, and if so please let me know!

When looking at Mark Lovick’s video the design of the tool (the grabbing part) looks different from my copy of the tool. I guess Bergeon changed the design and unfortunately into something that just doesn’t work, but I agree, that doesn’t sound very plausible.

Well, I’m more than puzzled! What should I do?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Minimum size is 1.0 mm . Most cannon pinions for smaller watches are 0.8 to 0.9 . But as you say Mark's tool looks different then yours. Can it be adjusted maybe? Like a pin vice?

Edited by rogart63
  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I had the same issue. The new bergeon canon pinion mover tool does not work with the smaller pinions. Really annoying considering the price. Looking at the vintage versions of this tool they close to a finer setting. Maybe there now made in India !!!

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1.0 mm! That was unexpected and that information doesn't seem to be available anywhere. I've checked all I could find on CousinsUK.com and Bergeon's page for this tool, but I can't find any info on this limitation. No, as far as I can see it can't be adjusted.

Anyway, I've now tried it with my Unitas 6498, and it works fine. The other movement I tried it with, the one in the video, was a Vostok 2414 having a cannon pinion being approx. 0.9 mm.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, clockboy said:

I had the same issue. The new bergeon canon pinion mover tool does not work with the smaller pinions. Really annoying considering the price. Looking at the vintage versions of this tool they close to a finer setting. Maybe there now made in India !!!

Yes, annoying is the word, especially considering the price! No wonder the used vintage versions seem to be more expensive on eBay.

Anyway, good thing we're discussing it here so that future byers will know what to expect!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 minutes ago, TimFitz said:

Well that really stinks! Bergeon products are way over priced & not the quality they were!

I myself don't own a canon  pinion remover because I work on Pocket watches.

Will they refund your money?

I haven't decided whether I want to keep it or not, but I'm leaning towards trying to get a refund. Got it from cousinsuk.com (which I really like) and on their site they're basically just relaying the info that Bergeon puts out. Anyway, the advertising says:

* For small and large watches
* Adapted to all calibres

And that's definitely misleading, so I don't think they would object. Yes, I've made up my mind, will try to get a refund and then try to find a vintage version on eBay.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well that really stinks! Bergeon products are way over priced & not the quality they were!
I myself don't own a canon  pinion remover because I work on Pocket watches.
Will they refund your money?

You should have one for pocket watches, mine is made by K&D .....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 2-6-2018 at 5:23 PM, VWatchie said:

I haven't decided whether I want to keep it or not, but I'm leaning towards trying to get a refund. Got it from cousinsuk.com (which I really like) and on their site they're basically just relaying the info that Bergeon puts out. Anyway, the advertising says:

* For small and large watches
* Adapted to all calibres

And that's definitely misleading, so I don't think they would object. Yes, I've made up my mind, will try to get a refund and then try to find a vintage version on eBay.

I would think you did not get the correct info so a full refund would be the only option.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Word from cousinsuk; they will take the case to the supplier. I would assume Bergeon.  My Russian watches are’t exactly small, so I don’t see how they could deny me a refund. I’ll keep you updated.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Here's the message I got from CousinsUK. Once I hear from them again I'll let you know:

"Thank you for contacting our management team.

We have forwarded all your information to the supplier as a matter of urgency and are awaiting a response.

Unfortunately, we cannot exchange or credit your item until the supplier has confirmed the item is faulty in manufacture. Please be aware the supplier may request the item to be returned for investigation and that the manufacturer insists that they are the only ones who are able to authorise an exchange.

We will come back to you as soon as possible and apologise for any inconvenience"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

47 minutes ago, jdrichard said:

I bought a vintage remover and it works great


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Lucky you! Congrats! Does the grabbing/gripping part look the same as that shown in Mark Lovick's video (link in my first post)?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, Watchtime said:

strange way of doing business as you bought it at Cousisns so they have to deal with it and refund you...nothing to do with Bergeon, that is the problem of Cousins, not yours. European law.

European Consumer Protection laws and regulations only apply to purchases made by an end user. When you open your account with Cousins you accept that you're purchasing for business or your trade, hence you forfait on that.

That being said, I believe what Cousins is doing is getting Bergeon to provide a correct representation of this tool, in order to update their website and avoid future confusion.

I have no doubt that in they end they will act fairly and correctly as they always did with myself and other members here.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...
On 6/19/2018 at 12:07 PM, Watchtime said:

any news on this?

Indeed, and thanks for asking!

CousinsUK has updated their website and has offered me a refund! :Bravo:

Quote from Sam Cousins:

"I have heard back from Bergeon who have stated that "the tool can lift cannon pinions diameter Ø1.00 to Ø1.80mm". I have added this information to our website"

I must say I was impressed by CousinUK's customer service before, but even more so now! I will definitely keep going to them for my future needs!

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Indeed, and thanks for asking!
CousinsUK has updated their website and has offered me a refund! :Bravo:
Quote from Sam Cousins:
"I have heard back from Bergeon who have stated that "the tool can lift cannon pinions diameter Ø1.00 to Ø1.80mm". I have added this information to our website"
I must say I was impressed by CousinUK's customer service before, but even more so now! I will definitely keep going to them for my future needs!

They are the best

Sent from my GT-N5110 using Tapatalk

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.



  • Similar Content

  • Recently Browsing

    • No registered users viewing this page.
  • Topics

  • Posts

    • Have you ever seen grease spread?  I use Molykote DX on the keyless, cannon pinion, etc and cannot imagine it spreading. Similarly, HP1300 should not be a problem, as long as you don't splash too much about.  9010 does like to travel though. I've recently re-serviced a couple of my watches I first serviced about 5 years ago. I was a bit too liberal with the oil and grease back then, but it hasn't spread everywhere. I only epilame on balance cap stones, escape wheel and pallet stones (and auto wheels if they need it).   If you use it all over, the oil might bead-up and travel even further - think of using RainX on your car windows.
    • Polish it where the old part cracked as well. Get rid of the stress-raisers.
    • Sounds great! And yes, I would use grease for the keyless as well although treating the parts with epilame would make the grease less likely to spread in the long run. Not critical but won’t hurt. My current strategy is to epilame treat all parts getting in contact with oil or grease.
    • Hello everyone, for what it's worth, here is my approach: 1. Escape wheel submerged in Epilame, then dried quickly with a hairdryer. Then the final tip of the pivots are cleaned by poking into pithwood. The logic being that the Epilame is removed at the intended contact point (to avoid any residue that may mix with the oil), but remains in the areas where oil is not supposed to spread to (further down the pivot towards the wheel). The escape wheel teeth also benefit from having Epilame to keep the 9415 in place.  2. I use a syringe to treat only the pallet stones. I suspend the pallet fork with some Rodico so that the stones hang downwards. I notably use a rather thick needle where a drop WON'T form, but rather where the Epilame liquid stays in the needle tip, which I then dip into the pallet stones. It requires some practice to get the right amount of Epilame into the needle tip, but it works for me now. This way, no drop will "jump" onto the pallet fork and potentially go all the way to the pivots.  3. I let the movement run for a few minutes without lubricating the pallet stones... to scrape off the Epilame in the intended contact "channel". Then I remove the balance again and lubricate the exit pallet stone with 3-4 successive drops. See the "channel" that forms on the pallet stone in the picture -- not so easy to see, but it's visible.       I am conflicted about the use of Epliame in balance jewel settings. My impression is that the two jewels sufficiently suspend the oil (even 9010). Apparently Rolex recommends NOT to use Epliame there (heard from a former Rolex service center watchmaker), as it could cause additional wear. Apart from that, I follow specific instructions where I can find them. E.g. the infamous Rolex reverser wheels or sometimes (parts of) the seconds wheel. Exception: I'm currently servicing an Eta 2824 and will probably ignore the service sheet that recommends treating the whole keyless works with Epilame and then using HP1300... I'll skip the Epilame and use 9504 grease.        
    • I'm going to give this a try today/tomorrow on my UTC33/Seiko 66, thanks!
×
×
  • Create New...