A Citizen problem

[Mattaphysics]

Ok, first let me preface by saying I am all for property rights, but when said property isn't in my budget I try what I can. And I'm paying for it now.

 

It's supposed to be a Miyota 8200 but I'm doubting that. It's def. A franken Citizen and what happened was the stem came loose when I tried to manual wind it. So I tried fixing it. When I went to remove the bottom plate I want sure if it was just the rotor bridge or if it was the plate. Anyway, I unscrewed it and it went flying across the room. I couldn't find a way to reduce the mainspring tension so I thought it was just the rotor bridge... Wrong!

 

So I think everything is found and it seems correct but I'm unsure. The two brass wheels are the same size and look very similar. I'm not sure if they're in the correct position cuz they flew out too. The problem is the winding wheel next to the barrel. That wheel's inner radius is much too large and was no doubt part of the problem. I can fit the back plate on alright and everything seems correct but it won't run. I checked the barrel and when I use tweezers and move it there's plenty of tension.

 

I'm unsure what the problem is, besides it's a fake piece of crap... Yes I do almost regret the purchase but this is mainly why I bought it because I knew there would be a problem and I wanted to troubleshoot it. I know I should have just gotten a real one but I can't afford one and this was wonderfully cheap and worked for a few weeks. Plus it looks nice and I just like it. Thank you for any help it is appreciated. Should I just buy an 8200 movement and replace what I need in that using this?

 

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[clockboy]

It looks a like genuine 8200 to me. I have attached one of my pics taken when servicing one last year.  I personally prefer the Citizens to the Seiko's.

[rogart63]

Looks okay to me also . Either you haven't put it together properly or you could have broken a pivot or two. It's a pretty easy movement to service . But many pivots need  to find the right place when put the trainwheel bridge on . There is a click spring that need to sit right also. 

I would go and buy a new 8200 or i think a 8215 would work to instead. 

[Mattaphysics]

Maybe it just needs an oiling? Yeah it is pretty simple idk what I'm doing, the picks seem fine, I'll include pics later, escape wheel doesn't seem to wanna align or move. But I didn't move it or do anything to it.

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[Mattaphysics]

You were right, if you can see I think it's the fourth wheel top pivot is broken. I knew I had the train right. I'm also quite happy it's a genuine miyota movement. Thanks for the clarification... It's just a refurb'd dial. Thanks for the help.

Also, I know it's a topic of Pandora's box but oiling... I'm planning on getting Novostar B and Molykote DX as my starting oils as funds are limited. Do you have a suggestion for a third or fourth that I will most definitely need when servicing MY OWN, not anyone elses. Oh I'm getting a clock oil as well should that cover my bases? I'm feeling like I'm going to need a 9415 or equivalent as well. Any help is appreciated

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[rodabod]

You ideally need three oils/greases as a minimum, but you could potentially get away with just two of you substitute the grease for a thicker oil. Further down the road you will buy more.

Grease for the mainspring (braking type of for autos). Can often be used on keyless and calendar works if non-braking.

Thick oil for slower part of the train (centre (2nd), 3rd wheel pivots), barrel arbor, canon pinion, keyless works, sometimes automatic works. 

Fine oil for faster part of the train (4th, escape (5th)) balance pivots, and pallet faces. 

For the fine oil where the train will be moving at a much faster rate with lower torque, there is an argument for getting something which will last a long time and maintain its performance. Some would suggest something fully synthetic like Moebius 9010. 

It’s best if you research yourself and make your own decisions. Watchmakers can be very  stubborn and self-assured when it comes to discussing lubrication. Read about the difference between natural, mineral, and synthetic oils and how they vary in qualities. Some creep, some turn acidic, some dry out easily, some thicken, etc, etc. Just watch out for the snake oil!