Cleaning Fluids

[clockboy]

I used this solution this week and it gave good results. For the very best results ie parts to come out with a real shine you need ammonia based solutions BUT not to be used indoors. The fumes are overpowering. 

[rodabod]

I use the Greiner concentrate from Cousins. It’s very good in my experience. 

[VWatchie]

On 29/3/2018 at 9:17 AM, clockboy said:

I used this solution this week and it gave good results. For the very best results ie parts to come out with a real shine you need ammonia based solutions BUT not to be used indoors. The fumes are overpowering. 

Bought 24.5 % technical ammonia (I guess concentrated!?) Gave the main plate of a Russian Poljot 2614.2H a 20 minute bath in my ultrasonic cleaner, and the results were inconclusive. My brass tweezers turned black (dipped it in the ammonia), saw no difference on the main plate except perhaps a little arker, patchy, dull, in some places, however the jewels became ultra clean. Before this I had cleaned the main plate with detergent using a tooth brush, and in naphtha using my ultrasonic cleaner. I did have a slight problem getting the jewels really clean so in that sense it was efficient.

I guess I should have diluted the ammonia, but I thought, WTH I'll give it a try. I guess brass and ammonia is pretty bad combination, and I guess these Russian main plats are brass based with some sort of silver colored coting, no?

Anyway, I'd appreciate to hear more about cleaning watch parts in ammonia. For example. what alloy is used for the train wheels? Brass?

Edited July 1, 2018 by jdm
Please don't include pictures in quoting

[canthus]

Sometimes a high concentration of alkali/acid can have less effect than a dilute solution.  Extreme is magnesium which will just darken with some strong acids but fizz away like mad with very weak acids.

I have a small U/S cleaner and I just put the parts in lighter fuel in a flat bottomed container which goes straight into the U/S without anything in the tank. Provided the container is heavy enough then it seems to U/S ok.  I've also done this with water based U/S cleaner fluid.  However I usually just rely on hand cleaning and use the U/S as belt & braces for dirty or troublesome parts as its only a hobby for me.

[Tudor]

A suggestion to those using aqueous cleaners: mix with distilled/deionized water, not tap water. The minerals in the tap water can cause deposits, particularly in crevices where it is difficult to dry. 

You can usually get distilled water at the grocery store for your iron. 

[bertmengels]

Hi to you all,

I was wondering, if you use a regular ultrasonic instead of a watch cleaning machine. How would you rinse your parts? And how many times? In which solutions?

I always cleaned my parts in the ultra sonic with a solution and rinsed the parts in benzine( that's the way an old watchmaker learned me) but i've found out that very often this does not give me the results i was hoping for. Can I perhaps get little jars with a rinse solution and run those in the ultra sonic? 

thanks! 

[TimFitz]

This my cause outrage with the purists out there, "i'm sorry if it does"

I use a ultrasonic cleaner with a recipe that was given to me by an old watch repair guy. He thought the really expensive  cleaner & rinse solutions were  a waste of money. 

Because I clean perhaps one or two pocket watches each month, i agree.

I cleaned a Hampden 18s P/W today with my solution and it was really dirty being 100 years old, and all. It turned out great as usual. I rinse with alcohol

Do you agree?

Edited May 23, 2018 by TimFitz
missed something

[bertmengels]

looks really fine! May i perhaps get to know what his recipe is?

[bertmengels]

@oldhippyyou might have some tips? As you have already helped me out many months ago!

 

[TimFitz]

24 minutes ago, bertmengels said:

looks really fine! May i perhaps get to know what his recipe is?

Yes you sure can. I will post it here later. I'm reassembling  that pocket watch I showed photos of

[Deggsie]

I read on another watch site that horoclean is a rip off. The main contents supposedly being stoddards (white spirit), naptha (high grade zippo fuel) and about 2% acid (don’t recall which one) to help lightly pickle tarnish from the surface. Any comments on the validity of this concoction please? I tried mixing naptha, white spirit and methylated spirits in equal volumes. The results were not bad. I dip rinsed in pure zippo lighter fluid before letting dry on parcel tissue. No marks remained.


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[Deggsie]

This my cause outrage with the purists out there, "i'm sorry if it does"
I use a ultrasonic cleaner with a recipe that was given to me by an old watch repair guy. He thought the really expensive  cleaner & rinse solutions were  a waste of money. 
Because I clean perhaps one or two pocket watches each month, i agree.
I cleaned a Hampden 18s P/W today with my solution and it was really dirty being 100 years old, and all. It turned out great as usual. I rinse with alcohol
Do you agree?

They look beautifully clean! A wonderfully crafted watch. I just love the ‘engining’ machine marks too.


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[TimFitz]

Here is what I Use

1. Empty 1gal. jug

2. 1/2 gal.of distilled  water

3. add 6 ounces of industrial ammonia 

4. 2 1/2 oz. Murphy's Oil soap

5. 1/2 oz. cascade dish washer soap.

Mix well

I won't go into what is in these products that mimics what is in the chemicals they sell at the watch repair places. For one I don't remember , second , I don't want to be scolded for getting them wrong.

 I put them in my ultrasonic cleaner, ( except for balance wheel & the pallet assembly) because of the jewels) , run a cycle , take the parts & use a soft tooth brush to give them a good brushing. Then cycle them through an ultrasonic cleaner. (again if necessary)

 I then take the parts out and rinse withe distilled water. Then dry them good. Then put them in alcohol to get rid of any water. Then I rinse them in another alcohol bath, then let then dry. I put them on a clean cloth on a homemade warmer made from a light bulb

If you use this you use it at your own risk!! I first tried it a few years ago on movement that I was willing to sacrifice. It did no damage & I am still wearing  this watch.

[Tudor]

If you heat your final rinse if distilled water to about 170 F and soak the parts for a minute, they will “flash dry” when they come out and you shouldn’t need all the alcohol rinses. 

This assumes the parts are not distorted by 170 degrees of course. 

We process a lot of jet engine compressor blades and the last step of our nitric acid strip process is the hot (tap) water rinse so the parts flash dry without spotting. 

Distilled (deionized is probably better) water is better with fewer impurities in it than the tap water we use. Some of the blades are pretty rough when they come in so it’s less of a concern for us. 

[p2n]

Horolene contains (from published COSHH) :

 

Propanone is another name for Acetone.

So the old watchmakers recipe sound about right - solvent, ammonia, detergent and water.

[VWatchie]

On 29/3/2018 at 9:17 AM, clockboy said:

I used this solution this week and it gave good results. For the very best results ie parts to come out with a real shine you need ammonia based solutions BUT not to be used indoors. The fumes are overpowering. 

1

1

Just want to let you know I picked up a bottle of this SeaClean2 and tried it with a Russian movement. Most parts (plates, bridges) came out shining, especially the train wheels and all other brass(?)/gold coloured parts but all wheel arbors, wheel pinions and most parts of the keyless works turned black like soot. So, I decided to scrap the movement and use it for spare parts.

Edited July 1, 2018 by jdm
Please don't include pictures in quoting

[clockboy]

I have used this solution too with my ultrasonic cleaner giving very good results. Strange how parts turned to soot almost as though some carbon has attached. Maybe the solution was too strong or too hot. I use my ultrasonic mainly for clock parts and I now use Elma 1:9 which is also giving very good results.

[transporter]

I've tried loads and loads of fluids all the jewelery  ones the ones that come with the cleaners and many home made concoctions, but at the end of the day I use L&R cleaning fluid with amonia for cleaning, I use it in a small glass jar sat in water in my cleaner (small amount doesn't smell at all) the cleaner is fantastic, cleans great all and  shines plates and wheels niceley, I won't use anything else now. As for rinsing I use alcohol, ie isopropyl,  I use two jars for this, one for rinse one and one for rinse two, same method as when cleaning. For drying I borrowed my daughters hello kitty hairdryer, such a low speed and warm it's perfect for drying parts. 

The cleaning fluid I get from cousins, its about £30 for 3 litres but add on postage and it's nearer £50, but that 3 ltrs has  lasted me nearly a year. And to be really stingy I filter it through coffee filters and use that stuff for case and strap cleaning applications.

[ecodec]

I am not a professional watch maker but a Jobber Fixer (most anyway!).  I use a basic U/S cleaner 40KHz and for cleaning fluid I use NAPHTHA (panel wipe medium-fast) from my local auto paint shop. It is a very good de-greaser and cleaner and it is about £12 for 5 litres.  For Balances and very sticky unserviced movements I use ACETONE. The best de-greaser and oil killer I have ever found. I also lightly brush the components as well.  Then a final clean with FRESH NAPHTHA and leave the components to dry. I never filter used Naphtha or Acetone as one can only filter solids and not the oil contamination. Just my proven method  which has worked very well for me on many watches. 

Edited June 23, 2018 by ecodec
More info.

[VWatchie]

10 hours ago, clockboy said:

I have used this solution too with my ultrasonic cleaner giving very good results. Strange how parts turned to soot almost as though some carbon has attached. Maybe the solution was too strong or too hot. I use my ultrasonic mainly for clock parts and I now use Elma 1:9 which is also giving very good results.

 

Probably too strong and too hot, now that you mention it! I have a tendency to overdo things. I guess its an irrational emotional thing. You know; if a little is good then more must be better, just like beer!

Anyway, I'll give it a try again at some point at return back to this thread.

[VWatchie]

3 minutes ago, ecodec said:

I am not a pro but a Jobber Fixer (most anyway!) I use a basic U/S cleaner 40KHz and for fluid I use NAPHTHA (panel wipe medium-fast) from my local auto paint shop. It is a very good de-greaser and cleaner and it is about £12 for 5 litres.  For Balances and very sticky unserviced movements I use ACETONE. The best de-greaser and oil killer I have ever found. I also lightly brush the components as well.  Then a final clean with FRESH NAPHTHA and leave the components to dry. I never filter used Naphtha, one can only filter solids and not the oil contamination. Just my proven opinion which works very well for me on many watches. 

2

I've had the best results with this method as well and it is the method I use when I'm not experimenting. However, for my final rinse, I use isopropanol and I'm very careful not to let the impulse pin and pallets stay in the isopropanol for more than about 10 to 20 seconds as I know from experience it will dissolve the resin holding the impulse pin and pallets in place.

ACETONE sounds extremely interesting! Once in a while, I buy interesting/unusual Russian vintage watches (for sometimes next to nothing, and I love it), and it can be quite a challenge to get them clean just using naphtha, as they are often poorly serviced and has been drowned in what I expect to be substandard Russian oil that has dried up and/or is all black and everywhere in the movement. Anyway, I suppose acetone just like isopropanol would dissolve the resin pretty quickly, no?

[ecodec]

On 2/1/2018 at 12:57 AM, khunter said:

Ok, this topic has probably been covered over and over, but I just got the biggest kick out of reading some of the MSDS (material safety data sheet) on popular watch cleaning solutions. One brand, I'm not going to mention names, has a cleaner advertised as "specially formulated" etc etc etc, then you look up the ingredients on the sheet and it's a fancy chemical name for Naptha, regular old naptha, and perfume (basically)...that's it...that's their "special" formula.

There's another that a lot of people are probably familiar with, which contains mineral spirits, naptha, olive oil, ammonia and a little alcohol......period.....the "formula" leaves a little wiggle room for exact amounts of each ingredient, but basically it's 65% spirits, 20% naptha, 10% olive oil (ok, oleic acid, but essentially the same thing), and <5% ammonia/alcohol......and as we all know, none of these "special formulas" sell on the cheap, they're in the range of $50/gallon!

I'm currently using the above formula (minus the ammonia) in my cleaner and I get excellent results, and it cost me about $15

I guess I'm just kind of venting, and I'm not knocking the companies for making good products. It just seems a "bit" excessive price-wise for basically over the counter ingredients. 

Oh, and hair-spring cleaners? Carbon tet, (carbon tetrochloride) otherwise known as engine degreaser! Even some brake cleaning fluids are carbon tet, so save some bucks and go to NAPA! (just kidding......or am I?)  

Acetone for the balance and HS ! Superb cleaner and the best de-greaser and old oil killer/cleaner. Period !.

[VWatchie]

5 hours ago, ecodec said:

Acetone for the balance and HS ! Superb cleaner and the best de-greaser and old oil killer/cleaner. Period !.

This sure sounds very convenient and more than feasible in terms of cost (I guess), at least if like me you're not a professional. I have one concern though; wouldn't acetone dissolve the resin holding the impulse pin and pallets in place? For how long do you treat the balance, I suppose in your U/S cleaner?

[VWatchie]

On ‎2018‎-‎06‎-‎23 at 10:47 PM, VWatchie said:

Probably too strong and too hot, now that you mention it! I have a tendency to overdo things. I guess its an irrational emotional thing. You know; if a little is good then more must be better, just like beer!

Anyway, I'll give it a try again at some point at return back to this thread.

 

Tried the SeaClean2 with my wife's gilded mesh bracelet. I used the recommended 10 ml solution per 400 ml warm, but not hot, water and it worked so-so. To really get the bracelet to shine again I had to use my old trusted method that I also apply to watch plates and bridges; warm water, detergent, and a soft and dense toothbrush. Nothing seems to beat it...

Edited July 1, 2018 by VWatchie

[jdm]

7 minutes ago, VWatchie said:

To really get the bracelet to shine again I had to use my old trusted method that I also apply to watch plates and bridges; warm water, detergent, and a toothbrush. Nothing seems to beat it...

Correct. But people wants technology even where isn't needed, or the  collector's pleasure of having an archaic machine heat , shake and swap jars for them.