I'd really appreciate your opinions on the following.
I've just started the "Level 2: Maintenance Servicing" course on https://www.watchrepairlessons.com. Before this I have successfully serviced about a dozen Russian Vostok movements (2409, 2414, 2415) so my choice of movement for following the course is probably not critical as long as it is a manual movement without any complications.
Anyway, I wish to follow along as closely as possible so I've decided to pick up the same kind of movement as used in the course. My idea is that once I'm finished with the course I will build my own watch around the movement like Mark Lovick shows in this video.
Now, I can't make up my mind whether to buy a Chinese clone like the one in the image above available on cousinsuk.com (CODE: CHI3620M) and of course on eBay (I suppose) or...
whether I should go with the above "Nastrix" movement found in a pocket watch on eBay.
To me the "Nastrix" movement looks "more attractive" (I wonder what alloy that is?). I think it would look better inside my own watch as I have a glass case back in mind. I have negotiated the price to about £61 for the Nastrix which is quite a bit more than the £36 for the Chinese clone. The following info is from the ad on eBay, and from my mail correspondence with the seller:
(---)in pristine condition--never, ever used. BRAND NEW!(---) This has the highly reliable, full size ETA6497 movement. (---)
Movement is approx. 36.70mm; that would be American size 8; 16 lignes. Case is 48.95mm approx.
The movement is stamped "Nastrix Corp, Seventeen Unadjusted", and "17 Jewels SWISS".
If you look inside this watch at the movement, you will find that it is a 17 jewel incablock made by "Nastrix." These were made by a man called Claude Wollman in Swizterland between 1970 and 1990. Arnex was the name of the manufacturer. Other good names which exist for these watches are Neiman Marcus, Kellner, La Cloche, Bucherer, and others. There is a good article on these watches which you can find on Google called "What is the value of an Arnex Pocket Watch." The article is not exactly clear about the cases. But the parts are Swiss and under a special treaty to keep US labor in the US they may have been assembled in the US Virgin Islands (St Croix.) A most convoluted history.
" Really can't make up my mind so I'd really appreciate some input on this! Would the Nastrix be a as good as the Chinese clone, or is this a scam? I should mention that the seller has 100 % positive feedback.
When working with this movement for illustrating the lessons in my Watch Repair Course, I have perhaps stripped it down and re-assembled it some 5 or 10 times in the past month.
The last time I did this was during the Live stream and once it was assembled the watch gave a very low amplitude. I did not show this in the stream as it was then past 10pm and I had dinner waiting for me, but when I came back to the movement the following morning, sure enough it was running with very poor performance.
The performance picked up just as soon as I slightly loosened the balance cock screw and so this led me to believe that the balance staff had no end to end play (called end-shake).
My initial thought was that, this being a clone movement, maybe it was fitted with different sized end-stones. I had removed both incabloc settings during the live show and so, I wondered if I had replaced them wrongly - as you can see, they look identical - but sometimes you do get them with slightly different thicknesses and, 1/100th of a millimetre can make a big difference. In this situation, replacing the incabloc settings the wrong way round can cause exactly the symptoms I was observing.
After checking that it was not an even simpler problem - like a rogue hair lodged in the balance spring or the like, I took out the incabloc settings and swapped them around.
Confusingly, this did not resolve the problem. In fact, the watch movement was running with just the same low amplitude performance.
Again, loosening the screw resolved the issue and so, yes it is definitely an end-shake issue.
I removed the balance and took a closer look and noticed a small dot in the lower main plate where the balance cock sits.
Once little trick some watch repairers will do in order to make fine adjustments to the balance end-shake will be to make a bump in the metal where the balance cock sits in order to lift the balance cock very slightly upwards and allow the balance staff more play.
This practice is frowned upon by many watch repairers but other watch repairers who try to keep repair costs down for their customers will have no problem with it - the purpose of this video is not to open a discussion about wether this is good practice or not, but I was fairly surprised as this movement was brand new when I purchased it and had never even been installed into a watch case.
I have another of these movements and so I thought I would take a look and see if that had the same issue, and sure enough - yes, a small dot where the balance cock sits indicating that the Chinese manufacturer for this Seagull movement makes it common practice to make fine adjustments of this sort.
The purpose of this video is to point out this issue. I am sure that after removing and re-fitting the balance assembly several times, I had flattened the dot made by the manufacturer to a point where I had reversed their adjustment.
A simple case of making a fresh dot with my screwdriver, allowed the balance to be lifted up and now the movement is running like a champ again.
On the whole, these Chinese clone movements are very good, especially for the money you pay for them. However, they do not come without their quirks, and this is one of them.
I hope you found that information useful
I broke the pivot of balance wheel on ETA 2804-2.
I bought a generic complete balance wheel with bridge for ETA 2824-2 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/262234041099?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT) and tried to install it without any difficulty. There is only a difference between the new and old one is the shock assemblies (Incabloc vs Novodiac). In the photo below, the new one is the yeallow on the right hand side.
My question are:
- Is the complete balance wheel and bridge replaceable between those movements?
- If Yes, after installed, the balance wheel has swung a little bit then stop. What is the reason? How to fix it?
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Since this is a pretty complex ana-digi movement I would only clean it if it is dirty on the inside (which is usually unlikely). For the most part you're only going to have to clean the inner keyless works where all the metallic non-electric parts are (the ones that turn the hands) and lubricate them. Anything that is electrical just use an air blowing tool and lightly clean them (especially the contacts) with something soft, maybe a soft brush. You have to take it all apart to reach the area where the gears/wheels are. You'd need some special grease and oil for them. Usually they use quartz watch oil. Can't remember what I used specifically.
I don't have experience but I have a friend who often repair automatic watches. I will share with him your info and video and try something.
Is white spirit ok for cleaning?
Any suggestions for the lube?
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Welcome to the forum! What you're playing with is basically the most sensitive part of the watch.... I think you're better off starting over from scratch, buying cheap movements to practice on, all the tools you needs, and then, try to fix the mess. We're talking at least a few months worth of practice here. Or you can take it to a pro who will fix it for you, but we're probably talking many 100s of dollars at this point... (a proper cleaning of a working watch would have cost a couple 100s maybe) It is a nice watch, it's a shame it got all mangled up. If you do decide to take on this hobby, watch all the videos, ask questions, take it slow. In a few months, you'll be very proud to have a working watch again (just make sure you break a few cheap ones first).
I serviced a watch like yours a few months ago. Mine had somewhat similar issues with the seconds hand. I just cleaned the movement, lubricated it and then assembled it back together. You'll find a few videos made by someone on how to take that movement apart on youtube but they're not very good if you don't have any experience. If you don't have experience with working on watches and if you don't have the right tools I suggest you take it to a watchmaker or leave it alone until you get more experience (if you're planning on doing this as a hobby or something).