Screwdrivers Choices

[oldhippy]

A good set of watch screwdrivers is necessary. The better quality ones help you in your work they are easy to work with. If your budget is high get a set of Bergeon or Horotec.I have mentioned Horotec as many members on here use them and say they are very good. With care, they last a lifetime. I still have my Bergeon set from the 70’s there as good now as the day I bought them.

[TexasDon]

Unless you envision yourself using your screwdrivers multiple hours daily, then yours are fine. The part that does the real work is the blade and you're correct to zero in on improving the quality of your screwdrivers from the working end. I went the same route, btw. A new set of Bergeon or Horotec professional screwdrivers cost way more than my first automobile. As a hobbyist, there were some compromises to be made in the area of tools.

I'm including a link to Bergeon replaceable tips. They're likely available from any watchmaker tool supplier. I simply purchased the best tips available and inserted them into my own screwdriver set. The improvement was immediate and dramatic.

http://www.ofrei.com/page239.html

[cap]

Hi Everyone

I am looking for my first set of screwdrivers and was browsing the Otto Frei website. I was looking up the Horotec's with ball bearings and came across a generic version.

Otto Frei description says, "These are the finest French made precision Screwdrivers. Set of 9 polished chromed brass screwdrivers with color coded rotating hexagon heads mounted on ball bearings(Base also rotates)." I was skeptical of the claim to be the finest because there is no mention of any brand and they're way less expensive at $56.95 than the Horotec set of 12 which go for $349. So I contacted a rep from Otto Frei and asked how they compared to the Horotecs. He said they were very similar in quality, but are less expensive because they are not sourced out of Switzerland like Horotec.

I was a bit shocked and still a bit skeptical. What do you guys think? Do you have experience with these particular drivers? The SKU is SCR-980.00

Here's the link: http://www.ofrei.com/page1362.html#30046

[watchweasol]

Hi  When you buy Bergeon you buy quality at a price, The french ones are ok . I believe I read some where Bergeon dont manufacture anything, some one else does the manufacture. I have screwdrivers I got 60 years ago and are bog standard nothing fancy and they still work ok  the knack looking after them.  the best tools do not make the best workman, good tools in the hands of an idiot are not much good but its not the tools fault. Buy the best you can afford at this time and maybe up grade as time progresses and as your skill level increases. add the tools as you go.  Cousins UK sell some under the A*F brand and they are ok .  all the best.

[oldhippy]

For what it's worth. I have only bought Bergeon screwdrivers that was back in the 70's and I still have them, they work just as fine today, I'm retired and don't use them very much, apart from tightening the screws on my glasses. I always thought Bergeon charge way to much for all there tools. Sorry I can't be more helpful.  

[praezis]

These are made in the Jura, too. However on the French side, few kilometers apart from Le Locle (Bergeon). I use them for years, quality is ok. 

Frank

[watchweasol]

Years ago when I started in the watch repair hobby Dumont tweezers and Bergeon tools were the norm and the prices were not that bad but as the market has opened up the prices rose  and to day they are the most expensive, Others copied them but never beat them but the copies are now very good. Just like fake watches, years ago you could tell a fake from 10 yards now you have to examine them closely. But I think the tools are way better now.

[jdm]

This has been discussed already recently, so it's always good to do a little searching.

Affordable unbranded A*F (France) drivers
Individual: https://www.cousinsuk.com/product/cousins-swiss-style-stainless-steel
Set: https://www.cousinsuk.com/product/cousins-swiss-style-stainless-steel-9-pieces-rs

Answer from Sam Cousins when asked about:
they are replaced by the Cousins Swiss style equivalents, which are the exact same screwdrivers

[oldhippy]

30 minutes ago, watchweasol said:

Years ago when I started in the watch repair hobby Dumont tweezers and Bergeon tools were the norm and the prices were not that bad but as the market has opened up the prices rose  and to day they are the most expensive, Others copied them but never beat them but the copies are now very good. Just like fake watches, years ago you could tell a fake from 10 yards now you have to examine them closely. But I think the tools are way better now.

I think I paid about £15 for a full set of Bergeon screwdrivers in a wooden box in the 70's. I expect a single screwdriver cost more then that now. 

[watchweasol]

That was about a weeks wages back then for some.

[cap]

I did some more research on this particular set. Euro tools is the manufacturer and this is their top graded set.

I also spoke to a rep at Jules Borel and he said they are good quality for what you pay.

[watchweasol]

Hi   I recieved in the mail today  Cousins uk monthly mag  It contains a section on tweezers , tools etc.  I have attached a copy for your reference hope the information is usefull to you    cheers

screwdrivers Cousins.pdf

[rodabod]

I have the AF French and Bergeon Swiss screwdrivers. The AF are just as good in my opinion, and better value.

[spectre6000]

I recently went through the same exercise. I haven't received the drivers yet, but I opted to pass on the generic French drivers. I read variously that they're made BY A&F, and that they just look like A&F and are made nearby (I believe the latter). Everywhere I looked, I saw "good for what you pay", "good for the price", and other variations on the theme. Given drivers are your most used tool, it's one where cheaping out can be a curse that visits you constantly. I opted to pass in favor of the Bergeon standard set. I see them all the time (and almost exclusively) in photos of watchmaking schools. Since students tend to be less than flush with cash, and the schools want to be teaching how to work with movements and not around the shortcomings of tools, I figure that's a good starting point for a value conscious yet thoroughly effective option. 

[jdm]

16 hours ago, spectre6000 said:

I recently went through the same exercise. I haven't received the drivers yet, but I opted to pass on the generic French drivers.
...

I think are hugely exaggerating the matter, and paying undue money and respect to Bergeon. It's the person that does the job, not the tool, I have started with cheap Indian drivers that worked just good, any mistake or slip it was my fault not their. Beside, with A*F we're talking about absolute top quality, with their ball bearing top and excellent blade quality. We should be glad that someone finally smelled the coffe and started offering to a realistic price. Maybe one day you will handle one and understand what I'm talking about.

[spectre6000]

It's not Bergeon I'm buying, it's the strategies employed by the schools. The base model Bergeon driver set is so ubiquitous in the schools that I honestly can't think of a photo I've seen of an academic setting that didn't have the Bergeon drivers on all the benches. Combine that with the fact that students are necessarily needing to be as cost effective as possible, and the schools not wanting the tools to be part of the lesson beyond a supply, and it's a solid recommendation. The generic French set is probably great in experienced hands, but starting out, hands lack experience, and there's no need to add additional impediment, however slight.

Looking around here and on other watchmaking oriented sites, the reviews on the generic French drivers sets are thoroughly mixed, with the vast majority saying something to the effect of "good for the money" meaning better can be easily had for more money. So if $50 is your budget, it's a good option. I have no doubt there are plenty of driver sets that are better quality, and even better value than the basic Bergeon model, but personally I'm willing to throw money at it to not worry about it. I buy Snap-On ratchets, Lie-Nielsen planes, and Fluke multimeters. I'm no brand **BLEEP**, but I'll throw money at quality all day, and when the brand and the quality are in alignment, it's a no brainer. I think the schools recognize this, and that was a key part of my decision process.

There's a guy on WUS pushing a Horia set hard. He has experience with them and their use, and in that vacuum, the Horia set is truly the only option for any sane person... but I swear he's the only person on the planet who seems to even know they exist, and all other google indexed mentions (save one, which very well may be influenced by him in the internet echo chamber) are him in various different settings.

My response is valid here because I'm in the same position and just went through the same exercise. Yours is at least as valid, if not more, because you have the set in question and have practical experience using them. Your opinion in this vacuum carries far more weight. I respect your opinion just as I hope you respect that I might come to an alternate conclusion. If I'm wrong, I'm unnecessarily out some subset of $100 in the best case, and at worst have a reasonable backup set of drivers and get to go through the whole exercise a second time (possibly with that Horia set). The OP will have to weigh these and what he finds elsewhere against his own judgement.

[JGrainger]

I've seen but have never actually owned any of the Bergeon screwdrivers.. back when I started the choices weren't much different but the regular really cheap all metal screwdrivers were seen as somewhat more acceptable (back in the days before everyone had the internet).. in some ways they still have some uses around the house. 6 months in I upgraded to some non-magnetic ball bearing screwdrivers, and later added a steel tipped set which I've often used since.

Bergeon is an industry standard with which people can expect a certain level of quality. That being said, I've yet to see a sufficiently compelling reason to actually purchase their screwdrivers. The Horia set sounds interesting but at the cheap end of the price spectrum it's not like the cheap ball bearing screwdrivers are nasty, and retouching or replacing tips is still necessary with any.. I'd say there's a bigger difference among "HSS" gravers or 1/2" wrenches.

For context, I'm sometimes really tight and sometimes the opposite - my non-watchmaking lathes are mostly vintage Hardinge with 1 Chinese mini-lathe mixed in.. I don't care much for flash brands but do like quality in some things.

[Nucejoe]

This is specially problematic when you come across a real small and somewhat rusted screw with worn slit, usually screw head pops off or one side of the slit breaks. 

I got a cheap set with replacable flat blade driver, and collect broken sewing machine needles( real strong) dress a bunch of needles to different sizes. 

I also soak old pieces in coca-cola for 48 hrs, which eliminate the chance of breaking screws. 

Safe removal of old screws is rewarding and worth all the work, certainly beats having to extract broken screws.

[jdm]

2 hours ago, Mazboy said:

So was wondering if anyone could recommend a set of screwdrivers that comes with narrow tips to begin with.  

All the quality Swiss made have narrow blades. At this time Cousins is selling unbranded AF  very cheaply.

[bklake]

There is a sticky thread at the beginning of this section, Screwdriver Sharpening.  It will guide you.

I mostly work on Seiko.  The screw slots are often wider than the blades of my screwdrivers, as recieved new.  Using the above sticky and a few other resources, I tuned my driver blades to match the screws I usually encounter.  Slips and scratches have been reduced greatly. 

It is possible to tune your screwdriver to fit the slot you need it to fit.  All you need is another tool and you will be set for life.

[jdm]

7 hours ago, bklake said:

I mostly work on Seiko.  The screw slots are often wider than the blades of my screwdrivers, as recieved new.

For Seiko with a ready tool I recommend Anchor drivers, cheap as chips, good blades with spares, they served me well for years. The "upgraded" to some Chinese with a thinner body, which one may like or not.

In fact one needs a minimum  of two sets anway.

[bklake]

Here is a link to get you started. https://www.cousinsuk.com/product/screwdriver-sharpeners. 

With this tool and any sharpening stone, you can make a screwdriver using any stock that resembles a screwdriver bit.  Sewing needle, coat hanger, brass rod, plastic rod, square stock.  My favorite is music wire/piano wire.  And, it will fit precisely.  One tip.  After you hone the blade to fit the slot, very slightly round the blade edges and corners.  As honed, the edges are very sharp and will act as a graver should it slip.  

It is a skill you should develop to be a better watchmaker.  Everybody wants to dive in and service a movement right out of the gate.  On my journey to learning this craft, I've found that many skills and processes completely unrelated to movement work, have greatly improved my work on movements. 

[kabong]

Hi,

 

I've started the Level 2 course, and on inspecting my screwdrivers have realised they are poor quality and damaged.

The sets online seem expensive.

I am working on the CHI3620M Seagull TY3620 movement.

How do I figure out what sizes of screwdrivers will be needed to work on this movement, so that I can buy good quality screwdrivers individually?

If the answer is to just buy the Cousins 9 piece set and it will be fine then let me know! I don't really need a stand if there are cheaper options.

Thanks.

 

[jdm]

After a while one will make use of most if not all sizes. The unbranded A*F at GBP 2.50 a piece from cousins is the best deal. There is a nice unexpensive fixed stand on Ebay, has a with an al. oxides strip for dressing. The latter is what really matters on a driver, not the brand or price.

[JohnR725]

I think the only time I've ever seen a service manual recommends screwdriver tip sizes was in one of the newer color Rolex service manuals. Otherwise it's the watchmaker's choice.

to give you an idea about personal choice several years ago in one of the BHI journals they reviewed screwdrivers. The particular bergeon screwdriver set I have they really didn't give it a stellar review. They actually liked the A*F set better other than the base which they didn't like at all. then their overall favorite was Horotec.