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My Beuchat Apnea has been a work horse for nearly 10 years (bought it the 11th Feb 2008)...up until a few month ago when condensation appeared inside after a shower (which isn't that great for a diver confused.gif). I let it to rest in a warm (not too hot) place with the crown unscrewed and the water disappeared. Worked for a few more weeks and that was it.

Today, it only ticks when I wind it : the second hands moves while I manually wind it and stops as soon as I let the crown go.

(That makes me think there's something wrong with the main spring...which makes me think it's unrelated to the shower incident).

When I unscrew the back, I don't see anything obviously wrong (by that, I mean I didn't end up with a spring in my eye).


For the price of a service, I can buy some tools and actually learn some skills. I know some will think it's a bad idea but I insist on doing it myself, hopefully with your guidance.


Would you guys be able to guide me through that? I think it's a Miyota 8215 (Miyota, I'm sure, it's written on it icon_smile.gif)

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Movement service aside for a moment- you need a complete set of gaskets/seals for the watch and a way to pressure test it. 

I agree the shower did not do in the movement but their clearly is a leak that needs to be addressed. 

Also, before you close the back up after all your hard work, keep it overnight in a sealed bag with moisture absorbent. We have “damp rid “ at mist stores. Make sure the relative humidity is extremely low before you seal it. If not, condensation can  form due to temperature changes with no leaks. 

(Diver watches are my “thing”)

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Very happy to feel some support from you guys!

 

Service: not doing  that for the moment, I have no oil, no skills, nothing.

Waterproofing: that's step 2. If I resuscitate the watch, I'll most probably buy a chinese waterproof testing machine.

 

 

Knowing the symptoms, how do you feel about my idea that it's a main spring issue? What's the right strategy, then? Is there a Miyota 8215  service book somewhere I didn't find?

 

I don't want to exasperate you with questions but I tend to do ten times more planing than action...and I'm waiting for some tools anyway.

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You need to set goals. 

Is your priority getting it running, or learning to repair it?

if you want your watch back, I suggest you do a movement swap.  That is not as easy as it looks for a beginner. Setting hands so that the date flips at midnight, setting stem length, keeping dial and hands from being damaged, swapping the date wheel over, not destroying the hairspring... plenty of potential for problems. 

A movement overhaul is major. More tools, lubricants and skill. Not discouraging you at all but know you WILL destroy stuff learning the craft. I did not tear down a movement until I had done several movement swaps. And I still lean that way. I know I’ll have a running watch and can then work at my pace to get the old movement working correctly. Sort of an insurance policy.  

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I don't need the watch to be running by the end of the week, I want it to be running eventually. If that takes me 2 months, that's ok, I'm a patient man.

Maybe I'll end up buying a new movement and swapping it but I'd rather try to see what's wrong with this one.

 

Scrap movements for training: agreed...I consider the non-working Miyota to be my first training movement :-D

 

 

So, my plan, so far:

  1. wait for ma last tools (hands remover, ...) to arrive (a week);
  2. remove the rotor;
  3. remove the main bridge;
  4. take a picture and post it here.
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Get a working Miyota to practice on. If you start with a non-working one, you may not find the issue and end up with a watch that still does not work. Miyota's are cheap enough that getting a new one for your watch and practising on your old one is not so cost prohibitive.

Since you're not in a hurry just get on with it and post pictures here as you go. Worst case scenario, buy a new movement.

Anilv

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  • 2 weeks later...

Tadaaaaa

I was thinking about removing the two circled screw and lifting the bridge to remove the main spring barrel. Your thought?

IMG_20180502_174450.jpg

 

 

(EDIT : I removed the hands and dial on the other face, nothing else. Not even the date wheel)

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Looks like t would come out as it is, but if you’re tearing it all down anyway, I’d get the other side complete and then pull the train bridge. Otherwise you run the risk of fouling up parts on the other side. 

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1 hour ago, Tudor said:

Looks like t would come out as it is

You're right. I've changed tweezers and it came. Now the question is: what do I do with it?

 

About the complete tear down: I thought the less amount of parts I removed, the bigger the chance I can put it back together afterwards :biggrin:

So, if I could solve the problem at this stage and put it back together somehow, I'd be a pretty happy guy.

 

Fouling parts?

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You need to remove parts in a given order

Normally is balance cock first - to prevent damage to the balance. Actually you should remove balance jewels even before that.

Watch some of Mark's videos about mov.t servicing and copy, Do not try to experiment, really no need.

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25 minutes ago, jdm said:

You need to remove parts in a given order

Normally is balance cock first - to prevent damage to the balance. Actually you should remove balance jewels even before that.

It's just that I felt it was more secure staying there rather than me going anywhere near it. I hoped I could fix the main gear issue without removing all parts, especially not the balance wheel.

 

I could be completely wrong, that's only what I'm thinking.

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1 minute ago, Martini said:

It's just that I felt it was more secure staying there rather than me going anywhere near it. I hoped I could fix the main gear issue without removing all parts, especially not the balance wheel.

Please trust the collective experience of about 400 years of watchmaking. Remove balance cock first and place int the proper dustproof tray that you have wisely purchased. Then move on with the rest. If your objective is, as you declared, to disassemble and reassemble, you will have achieved it in the proper way. But, you may not have fixed. 

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Good advice there. Generally, these are designed to come apart one way only, to keep us out of trouble. But, as you have found, there is always a way around things...

The dial side gears can easily fall out of position while you are tinkering on the back side. Then get tweaked. You really should pull the balance cock as advised, set it safely aside (it's going to need cleaning and proper lubrication anyway), flip the movement and pull the date plate and associated parts, the hour wheel, minute wheel, canon pinion etc. on the top side, so that all can be cleaned. (keyless too!) Then flip it back and take the going train bridge, which are those screws you indicated earlier.

Admittedly, I watched a few videos, and took some on-line courses, but at that time I had already torn down several movements too (but not Rolex ones!) and I can say the combination of book/video instruction as well as hands-on is how some one like me gets it. I have destroyed hairsprings. And they were early 2784 movements (for Tudor) and I had a hell-of-a-time finding the correct parts to get it right- I learned they offered two different beat rate 2784's but that's another story...

So, I guess I'm saying: I'm not trying to discourage you, but if you don't follow the advice by those (with WAY more experience than me) you are going to be spending a great deal more in parts because parts for Rolex movements are easily 5-10 times the cost of Eta parts. This coming from someone not too much further down the road than you are today...

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10 minutes ago, Tudor said:

parts because parts for Rolex movements are easily 5-10 times the cost of Eta parts

Thank god I'm working on a movement worth $50 new ^_^

I don't have anything to oil the movement and I'd really really like to avoid taking it all apart: I cannot service it.

 

I only hope I can find why it doesn't tick when it should, put it back together and have it working for a few more years.

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Well, invest in a couple oils then.

 

Otherwise, clean everything and run it dry, with the understanding that the next service (in a couple years) will require an outright replacement of a majority of parts due to wear. Pay me now, or pay me later. You came this far, you might as well do the service.

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I'm not cleaning the parts, hoping the oil that's on them will hold for a bit more (years?).

My only objective right now is to get it to run.

 

There will come a day when I want to do a full service, ultrasonic cleaning, oiling, gasket changing, pressure testing, the whole deal. But today is not that day, I'm not ready to go down that route.

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18 minutes ago, Martini said:

I'm not cleaning the parts, hoping the oil that's on them will hold for a bit more (years?).

My only objective right now is to get it to run.

The most likely reason your watch has stopped is an issue with the balance/escapement. That should be inspected thoughtfully first. I understand that may not be easy for a beginner.

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2 minutes ago, Martini said:

Doesn't the fact that it ticks when I wind it and stops as soon as I let the crown go help for the diagnosis?

I've never seen these symptoms in my limited experience, I think that could point to an issue with the mainspring or trains mentioned before already. Remove balance and pallet fork. Give it just a bit a winding, it should spin free, and when out of power the wheels should move backward very briefly. If it does, there is probably no point in taking the train apart.

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Hi Martini,

First off, if water has entered the movement, it needs to be fully dismantled, cleaned, and oil.

That said...

The mainspring itself contains a lot of energy and it will take a lot to stop it. Furthermore modern mainsprings like in the Miyota are quite rustproof due to the quality of the steel.

The power from the mainspring is educed by gearing until it becomes quite weak at the other end of the escapement..ie the Balance. Any effect from the moisture will impact the other components where there is less force first..where the part can come to a stop with slightly increased drag.

The usual way to diagnose a problem would be to get some power on the mainspring (not more than one turn of ratchet wheel)  and try to swing the balance manually and observe the pallet fork. By observing the interaction of the pallet fork and escape wheel you can have an idea if the balance is out of beat (see marks video) or if the escapement is dragging.

After observing the balance, you would remove the balance and cock and check the escapement by manually pushing the escape lever from side to side. If it snaps cleanly from one side to the other with the escape wheel continuing round then its generally ok. If the pallet-fork moves but the escape wheel doesn't then its a problem with the escapement.

Next remove the power from the barrel and then remove the pallet fork. By putting power on the barrel again the wheels should spin freely and slow at a constant rate. If it stops, try to help things along by nudging a wheel.. if it starts up again then you have a dirty escapement.

What I'm trying to stress here is that there is a proper way to find out the cause of the problem and eliminate it. The fact that your watch would run for a few seconds when winding is probably because of the additional torque induced by the winding overcoming any additional drag in the escapement and forcing the movement along. It does not mean the mainspring is the problem.

Looking at your photo.. not much evidence of water (maybe you cleaned it up before taking the pic?) so I would pretty much rule out mainspring issues.

Anilv

 

 

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I'm not cleaning the parts, hoping the oil that's on them will hold for a bit more (years?).
My only objective right now is to get it to run.
 
There will come a day when I want to do a full service, ultrasonic cleaning, oiling, gasket changing, pressure testing, the whole deal. But today is not that day, I'm not ready to go down that route.
Hi Martini [emoji4]
ou plutôt Bonjour ('m French too)

There are things I really don't understand.

First :
You write your purpose is just to get your Apnea working for a few more years, but you have probably already spent more than (or at least close to) the cost of a new Miyota 8520 in tools.
So ... May I say that you also "want to get some experience in horology" ?

Then :
You write you're not in a hurry but you dont want to spend a few more hours in servicing your movement all through the way.
So ... May I say that you "want your Apnea working as soon as possible" ?

All this shows, IMHO, contradictory and mixed feelings.

If I where you I would :
1 - order a new Miyota 8520
2 - proceed to movement swap
3 - put my watch on my wrist and enjoy it
then :
4 - completely service my old movement
5 - with some luck ... get it working
6 - keep it as a spare part for the future

Mais ce n'est que mon avis [emoji6]
Good luck with your Apnea

Envoyé de mon Moto G (5) Plus en utilisant Tapatalk

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