What am I? Ingersoll or Trenton or ?

[p2n]

I have this watch - It's my first whole watch success (in that it's working and I've actually made it better ). Only problem is one of identification.

It's marked as an "Ingersoll-Trenton". I can find Ingersoll and Trenton and I know Trenton was purchased by Ingersoll in 1908.

So my watch has serial number 3372817 - which is it? An Ingersoll, a Trenton or something else?

 

[khunter]

This would probably come from after the purchase of Trenton, each company used their own name singularly until the merger, then it became Ingersoll-Trenton.

[khunter]

Here are a couple example images of the two company names as they originally appeared.

[p2n]

9 hours ago, khunter said:

after the purchase of Trenton,

So that puts the watch post 1908 but the Ingersoll serial lookup suggests 1905 at the latest.

Which serial number list should I use? Do you have any other suggestions on trying to date this watch?

[clockboy]

 

Here is what I found on the net:

The Trenton Watch Company was a successor to the New Haven Watch Company, which had been started in 1883 in New Haven, Connecticut, but had undergone financial reorganization in 1887.

Trenton produced nearly two million watches, most of which were lower to mid-grade pieces in the 7-9-11 jewel range. Most of the watches produced were intended for the domestic market, but factory records indicate that some watches were produced for export to England around the turn of the century. Trenton was subsequently sold to Ingersoll in 1908.

Trenton-produced watches were marketed under a variety of brand names, including: Trenton, Ingersoll Trenton, Fortuna, Calumet USA, Advance Watch Co, Marvel Watch Co, Reliance Watch Co, Locomotive Special and Engineers Special. Both the Engineers Special and Locomotive Special were marked as 23-jewel watches, even though they had only 7 functional jewels... the others were fake and were entirely for appearance! Similarly, the watches sold under the Marvel Watch Co. brand-name were marked 23-jewels, even though all but 7 jewels were non-functional. Some of these "fake jewel" watches can be quite collectible today.

Trenton also produced two 18-size fly-back chronograph models, both with 9 jewels. Based on a Grade 40 or 41 with chronograph modifications, the watches were produced in limited quantity, and these watches are considered to be quite rare and collectible today.

[JohnR725]

In one of the other discussions of this watch you had a link to your Google drive with photographs. What makes the photographs interesting is the case? So I have a link to an article about the case making company. Then the case has marks on it like a British case or in this case a Birmingham case. Then one of the letters is a date code Which dates it is 1908 or 1909.

 

http://www.vintagewatchstraps.com/blogdennison.php

[p2n]

This image

So that hallmark is Birmingham 1908

https://www.silvermakersmarks.co.uk/Dates/Birmingham/Cycle 1900-1924.html

 

And the makers stamp is as you say Dennison

http://www.silvercollection.it/ENGLISHSILVERMARKSXA3.html#862ING

 

So - would it be reasonable to suggest this watch was made on or around the year that Ingersoll bought Trenton - i.e. 1908?

 

 

 

[vinn3]

there  are sites to date  the case.    the movement  should be dated separately.    vin

[JohnR725]

8 hours ago, p2n said:

So - would it be reasonable to suggest this watch was made on or around the year that Ingersoll bought Trenton - i.e. 1908?

Unfortunately it's not quite that simple as vinn3 As pointed out above. I don't know enough about the watch company in question but a lot of the watch companies sold their movements separate. You'd go to a jewelry store the movements would be in one case the cases would be another case. They did not come together. Not to say that they couldn't come together because often times the watch companies did case their watches up. Then through time watches get swapped in their cases. A lot of times you can tell that if you look where the screws go for holding it in the case they'll be additional marks where others screws were.

So what we do get is we know when the case was made. If you can find data that the company purchased their cases from Denison then all of this becomes much much more important. But even though it does give you some dates the case seems about the right time for the watch it's just another clue or breadcrumb to follow on your trail to.

[vinn3]

5 minutes ago, JohnR725 said:

Unfortunately it's not quite that simple as vinn3 As pointed out above. I don't know enough about the watch company in question but a lot of the watch companies sold their movements separate. You'd go to a jewelry store the movements would be in one case the cases would be another case. They did not come together. Not to say that they couldn't come together because often times the watch companies did case their watches up. Then through time watches get swapped in their cases. A lot of times you can tell that if you look where the screws go for holding it in the case they'll be additional marks where others screws were.

So what we do get is we know when the case was made. If you can find data that the company purchased their cases from Denison then all of this becomes much much more important. But even though it does give you some dates the case seems about the right time for the watch it's just another clue or breadcrumb to follow on your trail to.

  it's not simple.

[p2n]

My thinking goes along these lines:

1. The name - Ingersoll-Trenton. This must be after the purchase of Trenton by Ingersoll in 1908
2. The Serial number. I get a range from 1885 to 1908
3. The case - manufactured in 1908

So the purchase says it can't be before 1908 or it would not have the combined name.

The Serial number says it can't be much after 1908

The case was made in 1908

 

[rmlnr1962]

Just an FYI, if you look at the Ingersoll serial numbers tables, most of them have in fine print something to the effect that "these tables do not apply to jewelled watches", meaning the Ingersoll Trenton watches. They are usually 7 jewel.

[vinn3]

  another twist to the pocket watch story;  a man like my granfather might have a solid gold elgin with 14 jewels.  1929 in the U S A , there started "the great depresion".  off to the jeweler he would go to have the very good movement transfered to a "nickel silver case". vin