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H.J. Norris (Coventry) Pocket Watch


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Hello, and firstly happy Easter to you all.

When embarking on this wonderful hobby I decided, for some reason that I would avoid pocket watches and clocks -  at the time, I think I just wanted to narrow the complexities to one field.  However as time has gone on, I've become more interested in pocket watches, not so much from the mechanical perspective, but from the 'Gentlemanly Charm' they exude (not forgetting of course that there are ladies pocket watches out there too).

Anyway, getting to the point here, I have picked up a Pocket Watch movement made in Coventry by messers HJ Norris.  It's in non working order and I fancy a fair crack at putting some life back into it.  Casting my mind back to my first wrist watch movement I worked on, adrenaline pumping with excitement, cheap (Chinese :) ) tools thrusting around, I soon had it apart and..... well b$%%ered it up in an afternoon.  All part of the learning curve some may say?   However, I intend to operate on this pocket watch movement with more of a neuro-surgeon's approach.   I digress again - sorry!

So, the movement is NJ Norris of Coventry.  Ive removed the outer ring and looked inside via 10X eye loupe and spotted a miniature chain with hook on the end laying loose.   My initial studies on google tell me this is a 'fusee' design movement.    I now have a warm feeling as to why it's not ticking.

Now I shall get to the point, (and thanks all for your patience).  Is there a good web site I can go to to learn about disassembling, cleaning and rebuilding fusee movements please?  Or, perhaps someone her might have time and willing to talk me through the procedure?   I have tools for wrist watch movements, and the vice I have is sufficiently sized for the pocket watch diameter.  If I need any other tools, I will bite the bullet.

Look forward to hearing from you.

 

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Why you say you buffered it up. Maybe the cut where the hook goes doesn't hold anymore.

I recommend that you practice on cheap and common pieces before moving to unreplaceable antiques.

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A fusee p/w is nothing like a basic watch movement or p/w movement. I can help you with it but unless you have some experience, it might be hard for you.

Can you tell me is the chain all right with a hook at each end and is the balance working or can you see if the staff and hairspring are both in working order?  

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A fusee p/w is nothing like a basic watch movement or p/w movement. I can help you with it but unless you have some experience, it might be hard for you.

Can you tell me is the chain all right with a hook at each end and is the balance working or can you see if the staff and hairspring are both in working order?  


Hello OH and thanks for your swift reply. The balance hairspring and pivots are fine. With a slight twist of the movement the balance oscillates freely. I’ve now taken out out the fusee chain and although there are signs of wear along the sides, both hooks are present, although different - please see photo. I’ve experience with wrist watch movements including Automatic, chrono’s and date/day complications. Looking forward to getting this beauty running again. 585bb78016d774ea82292e0b5e181bff.jpg regards Deggsie




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Why you say you buffered it up. Maybe the cut where the hook goes doesn't hold anymore.
I recommend that you practice on cheap and common pieces before moving to unreplaceable antiques.

The buffered up movement was my first wrist watch, years ago [emoji6]


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In your photo of the chain. The top end fits the barral hole, the bottom fits the fusee cone. I can help you with this repair. Is the M/spring ok. I would like to see a photo of the fusee cone up close and the bottom of it as well please.

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I can’t help in any way as I’ve not worked on pocket watches however a Coventry watch is something I want eventually as I am born and live in Coventry!
Part of our heritage.

What I will say is there is the Coventry watch museum. It’s only small and open 2 days a week at this time of year but if you get stuck perhaps get in contact with them as for sure they might help you with some advise.

Website is easy to find
http://www.coventrywatchmuseum.co.uk/



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In your photo of the chain. The top end fits the barral hole, the bottom fits the fusee cone. I can help you with this repair. Is the M/spring ok. I would like to see a photo of the fusee cone up close and the bottom of it as well please.

Hello OH, I’m at my parents just now, but can send over more photos in the morning. I have take off the barrel bridge and examined the main spring, which without removing from the barrel seems ok. Thank you for you offer to assist me with this project.

Happy Easter
Deggsie


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I can’t help in any way as I’ve not worked on pocket watches however a Coventry watch is something I want eventually as I am born and live in Coventry!
Part of our heritage.

What I will say is there is the Coventry watch museum. It’s only small and open 2 days a week at this time of year but if you get stuck perhaps get in contact with them as for sure they might help you with some advise.

Website is easy to find
http://www.coventrywatchmuseum.co.uk/



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Thank you. Great info, and much appreciated!


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In your photo of the chain. The top end fits the barral hole, the bottom fits the fusee cone. I can help you with this repair. Is the M/spring ok. I would like to see a photo of the fusee cone up close and the bottom of it as well please.

Hello OH. I’m now back home and have had opportunity to take the photos you requested. Please ask if you need more. The fusee cone is still attached to the back plate (I am cautious about removing too much just yet on a movement I’m still learning about). At the top of the cone (widest diameter) I can see a clean slot with a pin mid span - presumably the chain hook picks up on this? I’m surprised at how clean and bright the movement is, and how little wear there is on the spiral track in which the chain runs. The main string arbor is square on the disk side. Presumably a key is required for this and is part of the setting up process (applying pretension?). Finally, the mainspring looks ok, (via eye loupe) in sofaras it’s not broken. Again, for now I will leave in situ.

Kind regards
Deggsie

c3fc39bb9d18de4a5129e206395bb75a.jpg4d63225aac09b80301012585160752af.jpg263651accd996758df9f69c162aec548.jpg4e4a1e7e4097db2ec60643c35242e1bb.jpg


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cbb09f8cf3e7da4e543591066a68a350.jpg
In order to keep all the parts safely in the right place for now, and go practice, I tried to reassemble the train bridge to the main plate/barrel/wheel/pallet fork etc. The pallet fork fouls on the balance bearing block. Would I be right in thinking that the pallet fork must be sub-assembled into the bridge as in photo) before lowering into place?


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I can’t help in any way as I’ve not worked on pocket watches however a Coventry watch is something I want eventually as I am born and live in Coventry!

Part of our heritage.

 

What I will say is there is the Coventry watch museum. It’s only small and open 2 days a week at this time of year but if you get stuck perhaps get in contact with them as for sure they might help you with some advise.

 

Website is easy to find

http://www.coventrywatchmuseum.co.uk/

 

 

 

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I just spoke to the museum, and the chap there was very helpful indeed. HJ Norris formed in 1830’s to 1906 and the became HJ Norris & son. unfortunately due to Coventry being heavily bombed in the war, there are no drawings or assembly information sheets on their watches. They do have some movements in the museum though. Interesting and helpful fellow, I shall make a visit when in the area

 

 

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I just spoke to the museum, and the chap there was very helpful indeed. HJ Norris formed in 1830’s to 1906 and the became HJ Norris & son. unfortunately due to Coventry being heavily bombed in the war, there are no drawings or assembly information sheets on their watches. They do have some movements in the museum though. Interesting and helpful fellow, I shall make a visit when in the area
 
 
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That’s great. At least you found some things out.

Yes Coventry was completely flattened in the bombing. We were a great industrial city and they were after all the factories which had housing built all around them.


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That’s great. At least you found some things out.

 

Yes Coventry was completely flattened in the bombing. We were a great industrial city and they were after all the factories which had housing built all around them.

 

 

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If it helps, my grandfather dropped a few on Dresden to even up the scores [emoji6]

 

 

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Thanks for the photos. I can see the whole fusee cone and it can be taken apart. I also see your p/w has maintaining power. That means when you wind the p/w power stays in the movement at the same force. On a movement with no maintaining power when you go to wind it up power is taken off for split seconds there for the movement will fail fractions of a second.

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Thanks for the photos. I can see the whole fusee cone and it can be taken apart. I also see your p/w has maintaining power. That means when you wind the p/w power stays in the movement at the same force. On a movement with no maintaining power when you go to wind it up power is taken off for split seconds there for the movement will fail fractions of a second.


Thanks OldHippie, I think the problem relates to the ratchet not working on the main spring barrel


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Thanks OldHippie, I think the problem relates to the ratchet not working on the main spring barrel


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506759f080acee6569e1d73444e00f1c.jpg
This is the part I believe to be missing or not functioning on the Norris movement



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Hi OldHippie.   Would I be correct in thinking that these 3 brass pins allow the dial to be removed after hands are lifted off?  I need to access the and reinstall the ratchet on the mainspring arbor.  Regards, Deggsie 4167269F-1A98-4F56-8995-21422717B012.thumb.jpeg.e7364dab3dbf5b65e2bc8c410dc3cc2d.jpeg

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Ok. Quick update and a couple of questions please. I have pulled the 3 brass pins which I accessed from the side of the movement so fortunately no need to strip it again (yet)

 

The ratchet was loose and free to roam inside. This was the source of the noise I could hear when I moved the movement. I also found one additional brass tapered pin

 

Some Quick questions if you could kindly help for now please:

 

1. I didn’t note which way up the ratchet went. Can you please advise from the photo if it’s currently correct or incorrect way up

2. Is the tapered pin surplus to design and left inside carelessly by the last service Horologist?

3. Should the click be spring loaded like a watch. This one is tight as tight can be, and no sign of a spring!

 

Many thanks in advance

 

King regards

Deggsie

 

 

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Hello OH, I’m at my parents just now, but can send over more photos in the morning. I have take off the barrel bridge and examined the main spring, which without removing from the barrel seems ok. Thank you for you offer to assist me with this project.

Happy Easter
Deggsie


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And here are the photos. Sorry, I got Freddy fast fingers today

ecdac79558c739e202402b366f9a162e.jpg48f528014b79ea8a2be9fddd304bb56e.jpg


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Hello OH, I’m at my parents just now, but can send over more photos in the morning. I have take off the barrel bridge and examined the main spring, which without removing from the barrel seems ok. Thank you for you offer to assist me with this project.

Happy Easter
Deggsie


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And here are the photos. Sorry, I got Freddy fast fingers today

ecdac79558c739e202402b366f9a162e.jpg48f528014b79ea8a2be9fddd304bb56e.jpg


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