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Tissot 31.1 bumper movement mainspring


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This time it's a bumper mainspring question. Maybe need a new mainspring for this Tissot watch . Slipping and low amplitud. Checked cousinsuk and they have a non-automatic mainspring for this caliber. But as it's a bumper shouldn't it be a automatic mainspring? 

For the 31.21 they say automatic. 

http://www.ranfft.de/cgi-bin/bidfun-db.cgi?10&ranfft&0&2uswk&Tissot_31_1

http://www.ranfft.de/cgi-bin/bidfun-db.cgi?10&ranfft&0&2uswk&Tissot_31_21

 

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23 minutes ago, rogart63 said:

But as it's a bumper shouldn't it be a automatic mainspring? 

Most likely yes, but not necessarily....

check out this old post for an alternative approach.

 

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12 hours ago, Marc said:

Most likely yes, but not necessarily....

check out this old post for an alternative approach.

 

Doesn't have that kind of slipping device on my Tissot 31.1 . But maybe it could have an loose auto bridle? 

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5 hours ago, MrRoundel said:

Out of curiosity, does the low amplitude cause the watch to run fast or slow? I'm curious because I've just "completed" Seeland AS1171 bumper that is very fast. Good luck with your repair. Please keep us updated. Cheers.

Runs pretty good any way. Sounds like you have more trouble with you bumper. Have you cheched the hairspring so its not sticking togheter

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17 hours ago, rogart63 said:

Runs pretty good any way. Sounds like you have more trouble with you bumper. Have you cheched the hairspring so its not sticking togheter

Not yet, rogart63. I do plan to though. I did run it through the demagnetizer in the hopes that if it was sticking together it would "unstick" apart. That didn't do the trick. I ran the balance through my ultrasonic with the balance attached, so it should have removed any stickiness. That said, if there's a little rust or something that I don't see under 4x magnification, maybe that could do it. I'm glad that yours is running well, with the minor MS exception.

Does the clutch on your 1171 give you grief about not staying in position? The one in my Seeland seems to like to go askew, which ultimately denies the winding arbor access to the inside of it without removing the dial again and fudging around with it. It's as if there is too much room for it to get cocked in there. Oh well...it's almost always something. Cheers.

Edited by MrRoundel
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  • 1 month later...

Hey rogart63. I hope that all of your springs are staying in place and watches keeping chronometer time.


I'm back to this AS1171 bumper. I pulled the barrel, but not until after being lazy and stupid to lose the clutch spring. Lesson, don't take watches apart when you're preoccupied, or take it too lightly, ever. 

Anyway, is this what the spring in your Tissot looked like? It sure is odd. I've never messed with an automatic spring before so I expected differences, but this one looks downright bizarre to me. I think you may have mentioned that yours was in a few pieces like this one looks to be. Maybe it was in another thread? Anyway, I'd love to know if this is what yours looked like in the barrel before I place an order. All other input is appreciated. Thanks ahead of time. Cheers.

 

 

 

Barrel_Seeland.jpg

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17 hours ago, MrRoundel said:

Hey rogart63. I hope that all of your springs are staying in place and watches keeping chronometer time.


I'm back to this AS1171 bumper. I pulled the barrel, but not until after being lazy and stupid to lose the clutch spring. Lesson, don't take watches apart when you're preoccupied, or take it too lightly, ever. 

Anyway, is this what the spring in your Tissot looked like? It sure is odd. I've never messed with an automatic spring before so I expected differences, but this one looks downright bizarre to me. I think you may have mentioned that yours was in a few pieces like this one looks to be. Maybe it was in another thread? Anyway, I'd love to know if this is what yours looked like in the barrel before I place an order. All other input is appreciated. Thanks ahead of time. Cheers.

 

 

 

Barrel_Seeland.jpg

That doesn't look right?  I would change that for an automatic mainspring with build in bridle.

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OK, so I ordered an automatic mainspring from Cousins. The spring ended up being of a different size than the ones you (rogart63) used in your Tissot. The spring was also broken into a few pieces. I guess that's why it looked so strange to me. :startle:

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28 minutes ago, MrRoundel said:

OK, so I ordered an automatic mainspring from Cousins. The spring ended up being of a different size than the ones you (rogart63) used in your Tissot. The spring was also broken into a few pieces. I guess that's why it looked so strange to me. :startle:

Was thinking the same when i read your first message in the thread. That the mainspring for the AS1171 is not the same as for the Tissot.  Great you figured it out. I looked on cousisnuk but couldn't find a MS  for AS1171 . Ranfft says http://www.ranfft.de/cgi-bin/bidfun-db.cgi?10&ranfft&&2uswk&AS_1171. And that would probably work fine. My Prima mainspring book says 1.60x7x0,75x 230. The ranfft is a little longer but almost the same size. 

Edited by rogart63
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Thanks, rogart63. As luck would have it, I went to Cousins to change the MS in my basket to the 1.60mm, and could swear that I did. But then, after ordering and getting the confirmation a few minutes later, it appears the change didn't take. Somehow the 1.30mm was still in the cart and the 1.60mm wasn't.

Cousins is good as far as what they stock, but they have virtually no customer service that can help clear such things up before the stuff gets sent out. Maybe they're working 24 hour days there, but if not, they should have some method for correcting errors within a reasonable time. They don't have any such thing. If you order something wrong, it's a done deal and it's getting sent out. I ended up ordering the 1.60mm in a separate order, but I think it's going to be my last Cousins order if I can avoid it. The little voice told me to double-check before completing the order, but I ignored it. Bloody heck. Oh well, it's one of those bad-luck watches it seems. Thanks for you assistance. Cheers.

 

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Oh, and it gets better. Before ordering the second, and correct, mainspring from Cousins, I checked Ebay to see if I could get one. I searched for the mainspring part number. None were found. Minutes after completing the order, I was on my Ebay summary and saw that I had actually saved an auction for what at the time I thought might be the right mainspring, but wasn't sure. I forgot about it. It had another proprietary part number, so it didn't come up in my search today. But, it was the right one, and for quite a bit less money. I should just go back to bed.

BTW, you have my blessing to enjoy a good laugh. :DPersonally, if I don't laugh...

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  • 8 months later...

Well, I dusted off my watchmaker's bench and took a look at what unfinished jobs  are lurking in the drawers.  One such lurker is the above-discussed AS1171 bumper.

I have never installed an automatic mainspring before. And I don't possess any special tools for auto mainsprings. However, I have heard that such tools do exist. Can I use standard mainspring tools? Anything I should be aware of before I decide to wind it in? Many thanks ahead of time. Cheers all.

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Ok, well if it's a standard auto mainspring (one piece) with a slipping bridle, then all you need to do is install it as normal. Be careful not to damage the bridle section if winding it into a mainspring winder, but hopefully uou can pop it in directly from the packaging ring. Use plenty of braking grease if you have it available.

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Thanks, friends. I'll see about getting some braking grease before inserting the mainspring into the barrel, and will go directly from ring. I'll report back once I get 'er done. Thanks again.

Oh, and are there any decent substitutes for the braking grease? I have Moebius MS 8200, as well as KT22 grease. Thanks.

Edited by MrRoundel
Add Moebius substitute question
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  • 3 months later...

Update on AS1171 problem child.

I ended up cleaning the hairspring again on this one, as it was running very fast. I didn't see the coils sticking, but figured it must be that. Since I had lost another yoke spring (Prior to my using the plastic-bag trick), I ordered it over da Bay.

Using the bag trick, I got the yoke spring in position without too much problem. The problem with this watch has been that inserting the stem is a royal pain. It's a fifties vintage waterproof case that has the integrated pipe, upon which the waterproof crown fits. This makes it so the movement must be set in the case without the stem.  You then set it in through the pipe.

What happens is the clutch ends up shifting inside its channel in the plate. When you insert the stem the clutch invariably gets sideways and won't allow the stem to get in position. It's really trying my patience, as the watch is finally running great, and I'm being thwarted on the last step. I tried the stem once with the movement out of the case and it sent right in. It must have something to do with the lack of side to side play between the pipe and waterproof crown. Regardless, it's very aggravating indeed.

The movement's design is much like other AS ebauches, it's just got a bad attitude.

Does anyone have any tips on dealing with this sort of stubborn clutch/stem mating? Maybe using a short dummy-stem to set it in the case to keep the clutch aligned properly? Is it best to put watch in setting position or winding position in such situations? Thanks ahead of time.

 

1171_set.jpg

Edited by MrRoundel
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  • 2 years later...

I am currently servicing Omega bumper 30.10 movement (aka 330). The new mainspring is automatic slip instead of old one (manual wind spring + bridle), just like the case presented in this post. With all the newer automatic movements I use Moebius 8217 braking grease for mainspring walls. I consider using it on 30.10 new mainspring as well, but just to be sure, check with the community would make me definitely more chill about it. The newer mainspring barrels have tiny notches in the inner walls where to apply the braking grease at. Whereas here the mainspring inner wall is without any notches at all. That made me wonder. Hows your experience?

49732669-9E34-4FF2-9A16-73B2D2929633.JPG

IMG_1350.jpg

IMG_1351.jpg

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5 hours ago, watchwolf said:

The newer mainspring barrels have tiny notches in the inner walls where to apply the braking grease at. Whereas here the mainspring inner wall is without any notches at all. That made me wonder. Hows your experience?

I guess this is a little bit depending on the looks of the barrel walls and the strength of the spring, sometimes wear and tear have made the surface a bit different from the original one especially on the plated/brass ones. But one could say the smoother the surface the firmer the grease can be. But for the old bumper ones I have had no problem even when accidently put 8217 in it. But as a rule of thumb, I use the following.

8212 aluminum barrels

8213 brass/stainless barrels

8217 good on most aluminum /nickel-plated/stainless barrels

If you are in doubt about the barrel condition in this case you should go with the 8213.

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