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Reassmble Problems - Newbie needs advice

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All things considered, my first tear down and rebuild didn't go too bad.

Some general things I learned:

  • Face side first!
  • Don't grab things too tight with the tweezers, two screws are somewhere on the floor
  • Don't over tighten screws, I broke one off and somehow managed to get it out
  • Take photos, don't rely on an exploded diagram

Ok so my questions. Here is the movement tech sheet I was using.

Crown set bridge. The crown locked in place but it wouldn't engage any gears. Any clue what went wrong? I'm assuming what they call the sliding pinion is in the wrong location or I'm missing tension on it? I just can't tell from the diagram what I did wrong. Photo as I assembled it:

IMG_0129.thumb.JPG.462b6299f488c660c794a894dba6bbbd.JPG

The balance wouldn't freely spin after assembly. My assumption here is the staff didn't make contact with the top and bottom pivots? Should I have taken off the regulator to seat that jewel correctly? Did I mess up the staff? Two photos:

IMG_0133.thumb.JPG.df23ca560341210c77520f3169fb37db.JPGIMG_0130.thumb.JPG.38345e954a8ad9ebe3dcc0630b8cbc51.JPG

 

The gear above the crown with the huge flat head screw. I assume this isn't made to come off?

 

IMG_0131.thumb.JPG.a573b0082724545093b4ac2dcf813316.JPG

 

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re crown set bridge - the set lever should hold the winding pinion against the clutch wheel.. ie the two parts with the ramped teeth should be forced together when the set lever and its spring is installed.

A pic without the bridge would assist diagnosis.

Balance wheel. Can only see one pivot clearly.. the other should look the same. You would usually get the balance in place and the balance bridge in position before tightening everything down gradually while making sure the balance spins. Tightening the screw in one go will break the pinion if it is not safely in its hole. If the balance spins one way and not the other then the impulse jewel is not in the fork at the end off the pallet lever. If all is in place correctly but the balance is still sluggish then you may need to clean the balance jewels again.

big screw/gear .. this is usually a left handed screw. ie clockwise to open. It is also usually very tight. This can break, especially if someone has already used force to try and unloosen it like a normal screw. I would leave it alone for the moment

good luck!

Anilv

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big screw/gear .. this is usually a left handed screw. ie clockwise to open. It is also usually very tight. This can break, especially if someone has already used force to try and unloosen it like a normal screw. I would leave it alone for the moment
good luck!
Anilv


Ah! It spins freely now but doesn’t come out. I guess I broke it.

Thanks for the help!



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2 hours ago, Link said:


big screw/gear .. this is usually a left handed screw. ie clockwise to open. It is also usually very tight. This can break, especially if someone has already used force to try and unloosen it like a normal screw. I would leave it alone for the moment
good luck!
Anilv


Ah! It spins freely now but doesn’t come out. I guess I broke it.

Thanks for the help!



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Ouch... well live and learn.

It is good when working on unfamiliar movements to check on the direction a wheel/gear will rotate when in use.

In this case, when the watch is wound, the gear would move counter-clockwise and potentially this could cause a normal screw to unscrew, hence the use of a left-handed thread which will only get tighter.

Most manufacturers will mark the head of a screw with 3 lines to indicated that it is a left-handed thread but there will be some exceptions.

Anilv

 

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It looks like the pallet fork is not in the right place... It is not evenly lying / rather slanted. Is it moving freely from left to right and vice versa? (maybe it is just the angle of the photo).

Capture+_2018-03-13-23-35-32.png

Edited by rappeleur
Inserted detail pic

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It looks like the pallet fork is not in the right place... It is not evenly lying / rather slanted. Is it moving freely from left to right and vice versa? (maybe it is just the angle of the photo).
5aa852a1a7c30_Capture_2018-03-13-23-35-32.thumb.png.8fa62f57f42e57bce8b8e3217786e393.png

The pallet fork moves with each rotation of the escape wheel. With photo can not judge if it is evenly lying or not. However you can check yourself by gently notch the fork from both directions. If it moves with escape wheel it seems to be okay. Remind that you should check the pivot of the pallet fork before tightening the screws.


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yeah, I know, I wanted to give adive to the TO "Link"  for his/her problem:

On 13.3.2018 at 1:01 AM, Link said:

The balance wouldn't freely spin after assembly

I only saw the photo and thought this might be a thing to check for him/her before taking apart the whole movement... (It may also be that the balance was just set a bit wrong in place, so that the jewel came to lie outside the pallet fork and thus couldn’t be moved by it).

 

 

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7 hours ago, hokavan said:

With photo can not judge if it is evenly lying or not.

For sure the pallet can't stay in the middle like that. Definitely something is wrong with that escapement.

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Thanks everyone for the advice!

I think I had the pallet installed incorrectly, I was able to wind it up slightly and make the escapement tick after this try. As far as I can see in my loupe the pallet isn't damaged. For the balance, it has a tooth looking jewel, impulse jewel? where should I put this during installation? In the fork? Should the spring have any tension?

IMG_0139.thumb.JPG.b8b54ecb5371a3b2138dd22f968139d9.JPG

Now on to the crown. Here is a pic with the set bridge removed. What is wrong with this picture? I feel like the spring isn't in the right place. Actually I think maybe the sliding pinion is backwards?

These pics are all through a 10X loupe and my iphone, this works amazingly well.

IMG_0140.thumb.JPG.2a4ae41c35ac07a919dad5096fec43dd.JPG

Edited by Link
I can't spell

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The roller jewel on the escape wheel should rest between the banking pins ( no tension). This can be checked with the pallet fork removed and the balance cock reinstalled. And looking between the banking pins make sure the roller jewel on the balance wheel roller table is perfectly between those pins.

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9 minutes ago, Eckehardt said:

The roller jewel on the escape wheel should rest between the banking pins ( no tension). This can be checked with the pallet fork removed and the balance cock reinstalled. And looking between the banking pins make sure the roller jewel on the balance wheel roller table is perfectly between those pins.

 

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I figured out my keyless works problem.

This safety pin looking spring needed to be behind this peg!

5a7c52ff1f2aa932dfd8582760492e5a.jpg



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    • Since this is a pretty complex ana-digi movement I would only clean it if it is dirty on the inside (which is usually unlikely). For the most part you're only going to have to clean the inner keyless works where all the metallic non-electric parts are (the ones that turn the hands) and lubricate them. Anything that is electrical just use an air blowing tool and lightly clean them (especially the contacts) with something soft, maybe a soft brush. You have to take it all apart to reach the area where the gears/wheels are. You'd need some special grease and oil for them. Usually they use quartz watch oil. Can't remember what I used specifically.
    • I don't have experience but I have a friend who often repair automatic watches. I will share with him your info and video and try something.

      Is white spirit ok for cleaning?
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      Inviato dal mio G3121 utilizzando Tapatalk

    • Welcome to the forum! What you're playing with is basically the most sensitive part of the watch.... I think you're better off starting over from scratch, buying cheap movements to practice on, all the tools you needs, and then, try to fix the mess. We're talking at least a few months worth of practice here. Or you can take it to a pro who will fix it for you, but we're probably talking many 100s of dollars at this point... (a proper cleaning of a working watch would have cost a couple 100s maybe) It is a nice watch, it's a shame it got all mangled up. If you do decide to take on this hobby, watch all the videos, ask questions, take it slow. In a few months, you'll be very proud to have a working watch again (just make sure you break a few cheap ones first).
    • I serviced a watch like yours a few months ago. Mine had somewhat similar issues with the seconds hand. I just cleaned the movement, lubricated it and then assembled it back together. You'll find a few videos made by someone on how to take that movement apart on youtube but they're not very good if you don't have any experience. If you don't have experience with working on watches and if you don't have the right tools I suggest you take it to a watchmaker or leave it alone until you get more experience (if you're planning on doing this as a hobby or something).  
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