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7 hours ago, watchweasol said:

I see Moebius 9010 listed in the technical manual, but Esslinger doesn't seem to carry that oil. Is the Moebius 8000 or the Moebius 9020 a newer version of the 9010? 

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7 hours ago, JohnR725 said:

Then While you're reading the above  discussion make sure if you don't read every single message you at least skim through to the very end where somebody's posted some links to PDFs. I was going to do it but I checked and what I was going to post is already they are so no point in doing it here.

Then just as a minor reminder watch repair spans a lot of time. Time causes things like watch companies change their thoughts on things. Time also means lots and lots of sources and ideas for lubrication. So if you grasp why you purchased the lubrication where you think it's supposed to go and you're happy with the results then you don't have to worry about all the rest of the suggestions confusion etc. and you're good to go.

I gave the thread a good read at the start to figure out what oils are needed. My current plan is all just practice. So I have a few practice movements to disassemble, clean and oil, then put back together, then repeat. Since I'll essentially be just oiling and then washing the oil off long before the movement needs a true service, is there a multipurpose oil that I can use for practice? I don't really want to spend $50 for Moebius D-5 if I'm just going to be applying and removing the oil. 

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27 minutes ago, Xander said:

I see Moebius 9010 listed in the technical manual, but Esslinger doesn't seem to carry that oil. Is the Moebius 8000 or the Moebius 9020 a newer version of the 9010? 

I think you might find their website Moebius below helpful.They even have a nice PDF lubrication chart To download. Then it would be impossible for any horological company not to have 9010 because everyone in the universe except me uses that for the balance pivots. It's just about the universal one that 99.9% of the world recommends is 9010. You could use the 8000 except it's a natural or mineral oil it's not synthetic. Although it's much cheaper you really want to get the 9010 so you can be with the cool kids of the world. Then you're right I've done a really thorough search because it's impossible but they really don't have any 9010? 

You really want to look at their website Moebius look at the tech sheets 9010 and 9020 are not the same thing.  9020 by Psalm is now considered obsolete. When I was in school it was the universal pivot oil of course yet 9010 up for the balance of light stuff. So it's basically just heavier 9010 and it seems to stay in place longer. As typically I'm doing pocket watches it's my oil a choice as the light oil.

Then when purchasing a horological stuff it's very important to shop around prices can vary considerably. So I have a link to eBay below they have a variety of oils and the seller is in the US. There was another seller in France it might've been cheaper but I don't know what shipping's going to be or whether you even get anything from France right now.

Then the D5 is a mineral oil The suggestion is to replace it with HP 1300 9104  I have a link below for that. Slightly cheaper than your D5

Then the last link is another seller and if their prices are up to date they look pretty good you'll just have to scroll down the page for the various lubricants.

 

http://www.moebius-lubricants.ch/en

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Moebius-Oils-Lubricants-Greases-for-Watches-Clocks-Repair/172671249074?hash=item2834022ab2:m:mXVxMGZkUfPs7aD9W88bz1A

https://www.esslinger.com/moebius-9104-synt-hp-1300-synthetic-watch-oil-2ml/

http://www.ofrei.com/page246.html

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I was looking at another source of lubrication and 9010 must really be popular there out?

https://mccawcompany.com/?s=Moebius

Here's another source it appears to be in stock so everyone can relax to does not appear to be a shortage of 9010

http://www.julesborel.com/products/tools-lubricating-oils

Then yet another source

https://www.jewelerssupplies.com/shop-bin/sc/productsearch.cgi?search_field=Moebius

You will note that they all have slightly different prices? I don't remember which website sometime in the past I remember a comment that you won't know your final price until basically check out time because I don't think they update their websites. Which may explain why were seeing so much variation in pricing.

 

 

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On 6/8/2020 at 4:24 AM, JohnR725 said:

You will note that they all have slightly different prices? I don't remember which website sometime in the past I remember a comment that you won't know your final price until basically check out time because I don't think they update their websites. 

Just my suggestion, buy from Cousins UK, lowest prices and shipping fees, largest inventory ever, great ease and businesses practices. USA buyers will have to wait a little longer but they buy tax free. 

 

 

Edited by jdm
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On 6/14/2020 at 9:23 PM, Mark said:

I made this for anybody getting started, feel free to share.

Thanks Mark, as a student of your watch lessons I've been following your advice. In the level 2 course where you discuss lubricating various parts, In respect of the keyless and motion works video you lubricate the vast majority with D5 which I have adopted. However in this thread and in subsequent videos you recommend 9501 or Molykote for the keyless works. Can you advise which is generally correct? 

On a separate related note, the extended Seiko restoration video a oil/grease of purple appearance is used extensively, can I ask what this is please?

Many thanks, I'm really enjoying the course!

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On 6/14/2020 at 9:23 PM, Mark said:
I made this for anybody getting started, feel free to share.


Hey, that was really nice of you to put this together. Thanks. So throw away my 2w20 synth:)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

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  • 3 weeks later...

I have more recent Seiko movements 7s26, 4R36 and 6R15. I do not have Seiko greases but have some Swiss oils and greases. What do you recommend instead of the S4 and S6?
I think I could make use of Moebius 9501, I'm also looking to replace D5 with HP but not sure whether it's the 1300 or 1000

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Did a search found the discussion others making recommendations. Otherwise cousins has some of them. Then for D5 typically it's HP 1300 there just about the same viscosity.

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/seikoholicssupportforum/question-about-seiko-oils-t83.html?

https://www.cousinsuk.com/product/seiko-s6-grease

https://www.cousinsuk.com/product/seiko-s4-grease

https://www.cousinsuk.com/product/seiko-s3-grease

http://www.moebius-lubricants.ch/en

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, PeterS said:

Thank you for letting me know. I ordered the Seiko greases to make it easier.

I would not recommend Seiko lubricants. They don't know even say if they are synthetic based, I suspect they are not, plus are expensive, especially when bough all together do do perhaps few watches per year.. Like it or not, the best standards and range is offered by Moebius.

Edited by jdm
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7 hours ago, jdm said:

I would not recommend Seiko lubricants. They don't know even say if they are synthetic based, I suspect they are not,

this is a unfortunate problem for a lot of horological lubrication's zero specifications. At least with moebius you can download their tech sheets to look and see if there's any natural properties in the lubrication and see the shelf life.  then yes as we discovered another discussion may still have natural substances and those lubrication's have a much shorter shelf life.

then regarding lubrication I'm attaching an Omega document helpful hints for lubrication.

 

Omega 8645_WI_40_rules for lubrication cousins uk.pdf

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2 minutes ago, JohnR725 said:

natural substances and those lubrication's have a much shorter shelf life.

I suppose than "natural based" lubricants have an even shorter life when used, exposed to air and contaminants.

Perhaps I'm just wasting  common sense here and I should just throw away my stash of clearly labelled Moebius lubricants on the very day they expire, and just follow manufacture's direction with no objection.

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36 minutes ago, jdm said:

Perhaps I'm just wasting  common sense here and I should just throw away my stash of clearly labelled Moebius lubricants on the very day they expire, and just follow manufacture's direction with no objection

yes I'm going to be extremely disappointed with you if you do not throw away all your lubrication's when they expire. Then if they don't have an expiry date their incredibly old and should have been thrown away years ago.

I was at a lecture once where the professional watchmaker Jeff was talking about upgrading & replacing your lubricants. I thought about it realized I hadn't bought any new oils in quite a few years? So armed with $200 cash I went to the material house. I think Debbie was amused because normally watchmakers cry about the price and I said I had $200 and I wasn't concerned about the costs I wanted to replace all my  lubrication's. unfortunately the HP oils were relatively new and only in the large bottles the same size as a bottle D5 at five times its cost. So this means I have roughly $200 of miscellaneous lubrication's and another $200 of two types of HP oils.

Then I thought about it for a while decided that at least at home I have zero intention on ever replacing these oils unless the bottle runs out which based on the consumption of the previous oils I was using is extremely unlikely especially the HP oils I will never go through all of that. Everything at home is for personal use I have zero intention on ever upgrading my oils. If something nifty new comes out I might buy that maybe or I might buy a lubrication for amusement sake but at home I really wouldn't worry about the expiring dates of synthetic oil.

My understanding from the watch companies is that there is concern about each time you get oil out of the bottle there's a risk of contamination. That's why supposedly Rolex has all of their lubrication's in syringes so there's less contamination issue. Then you're supposed to replace the oil in your cups on a very regular basis so all of this becomes irrelevant because you go through your oil in a lightning fast speed if you really did that.

My personal recommendation for lubrication is stay away from natural oils as I have a shorter life time even though the indications were they were much better lubricants at least while they were lubricating. The staying with synthetic and mineral oils or whatever with long life find whatever you you like and go with that. with modern cheap timing machines you can now check your performance and because are your watches you can check your performance over years you'll figure out eventually what you like what you don't like what works and what doesn't work go with that.  Except if you make poor lubrication choices on an automatic for instance a lot of times the automatic mechanism will suffer and might disintegrates from use.  this tended to be a more common problem with earlier automatics it didn't have jeweled bearings and to some degree this is all irrelevant if the gaskets in your watch disintegrate and moisture gets in. Rust and any form of lubrication is a really nice grinding compound.

 

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Most of the time I'm working on scrap movements. There is no point to replace the oil in the oil cups for such work.
I've ordered the Seiko greases and will give them a go. Some watches have not been serviced for more than five years and they are still going well so I guess their greases can't be that bad. I will change the oil in the cups when I work on watches that will be worn but that doesn't happen that often.
I will replace the oils when they expire. They don't expire at the same time so it will be £20 here and there now and again. That's not as bad when you pay out £200.

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54 minutes ago, Lwayslate said:

None of these links work for me on my Android phone. Any ideas how to fix this?

Stop using Tapatalk, install a PDF reader if needed, or even (much) better, use a desktop.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Many oils have expiration dates on them - 

Can you please comment on what the cons of for using expired oils and if this is marketing ploy or a an actual valid indication of when the oils degenerate and are not to their full intended use ?

 

 

Thank you

 

Art G 

Edited by ArtG
to notify me of replies
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52 minutes ago, ArtG said:

Many oils have expiration dates on them 

This has often been discussed here, example below. And if you enter "expired" in the search box on the top right you will get even more hits.

Also, we have a dedicated section where it's considered polite for new members to introduce themselves.

Edited by jdm
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This isn't really a question but just some info I'd like to share. Nevertheless, please feel free to comment and share your opinions. You may also find this thread useful.

602679557_SeikoWatchOils.thumb.jpg.c6ccb206f22d3188ff23a97da4ad1b16.jpg

These Seiko oils and greases seem to be commonly recommended in Seiko’s technical guides, and after some research I believe the following Moebius oils and greases are good/reasonable replacements:

AO-3 (Moebius A) => Moebius 9010
Seiko Watch Oil S-6 => Moebius 9504, Moebius 9501, Moebius HP-1300, Moebius D5
Seiko Watch Oil S-4 => Moebius 8301

The original Seiko oils and greases are, just like their watch parts, difficult to get by as Seiko, like most other brands, are trying to choke the independent watch trade.

1029272773_Inspirewatchmaking.thumb.jpg.7e750f5f62e06ef565bd277f1259c07a.jpg

Edited by VWatchie
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2 hours ago, VWatchie said:

The original Seiko oils and greases are, just like their watch parts, difficult to get by as Seiko, like most other brands, are trying to choke the independent watch trade.

That is just your unproven believing. The simpler explanation is that in the Western world we have an easy quality alternative with Moebius products. Fact is,  the brave material house that tried to bring the Swiss to court has no "restricted" labels when it comes to Seiko parts, and also sells Seiko lubricants and tools, just like so many other sellers in the world.

Anway, as they is nothign is new under the sun, below few topics where the matter has been discussed already:

 

 

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Well at least we can still buy some new swiss parts off of ebay even if they are price gauged. Serial number scratched off of packaging to conceal the offending distributor of course. Now try finding ANY new Orient parts ANYWHERE. 

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18 minutes ago, CaptCalvin said:

Now try finding ANY new Orient parts ANYWHERE. 

But I think that Orient doesn't just because of limited resources. They are a small maker surprised by their own success, maybe  their ingombrant owner only allows them to produce and advertise domestically and in the US. And recently someone wrote here that Orient sells parts in the US

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