Lubricants

[canthus]

I have used 941 on low beat movements many times.  I read that it is advised to epilame the pallet stones and escape wheel when using this oil which I have always done.  This probably because it is very thin and likely to migrate more.  That is why epilame is advised.  Epilame is also known as Moebius Fixodrop.  I gather the 9451 is more like a thixotropic loose grease that stiffens up when the pallet stones hit the escape wheel teeth.  It will probably stay in place better at the higher speeds of the escapement parts.

[canthus]

OOPS!  Brain malfunction !!

Should have said that when the pallet stones/escape wheel teeth hit the loose grease in the working zone it reduces the viscosity making it much thinner. When the working zone ends the loose grease will thicken again to help 'stay-in-place' properties.  Makes more sense this way !!!!

[oldhippy]

Pallet stones should not be greased. Not clock pallets or watch pallets, don’t know about quartz movements.  

[Marc]

 

Pallet stones should not be greased. Not clock pallets or watch pallets, don’t know about quartz movements.  

 

Moebius 9415 is a lubricant specifically designed for pallets and is recommended for both mechanical clock and watch movements.

It is a thixotropic fluid which means that under static conditions it has a relatively high viscosity which, as Canthus has pointed out helps it to stay in place, but which stressed in some way (for instance when suddenly squeezed between a pallet stone and an escape wheel tooth) becomes momentarily much less viscous allowing it to flow more easily (thus lubrication the interface between the pallet stone and the escape wheel tooth).

It is technically a grease and as such it is perfectly acceptable (even recommended) to lubricate both clock and watch pallet stones with a grease so long as it is 9415 or some equivalent. It would however be entirely inappropriate to do so using something like Castrol LM

 

[oldhippy]

Thanks for the info. It certainly wasn’t about in my days. There you see even retired all these years and I’m still learning.

[Folkvisor]

 

If you want to stick with Moebius use  clock oil 8031.

I always preferred JD Windles Clock Oil for all clocks apart from clocks that had a platform escapement, then it would be a watch oil but not too thin.  

 

I'm currently working on a Waltham Hunter which someone has flooded with something that looks like some kind of all-purpose household oil. The watch needs a new mainspring so I'm waiting for it to arrive before I clean and lube the watch. I am wondering if I can use the same oils/grease as a 6497 as I have experience with that type. Any advice would be helpful...

[canthus]

Better explanation from Marc, thanks.  Being ex oil industrial oils 'a grease is a grease' to me no matter what form it takes, so I may have misled some people in my explanation.

Don't know what 6497 is, but 9415 is very thin and may have limited use.

For those interested I have attached Moebius' sales spec book which describes all their oils (at the time of publishing, may be more products now), typical applications and some handy movement/lubes pics.

moebius-specsbook.pdf

[Kevin]

I have to say the oil side of watch repair makes me smile. Back in November  put in an order

for a 55 gallon drum of 1000 weight steam oil for my traction engine. I buy about one drum a year and it lasts well.

Two weeks ago I ordered most of the oils I thought I would need for watch repair, the total quantity came to about 14ml

of oil. I paid a third of the cost of my 55gallons on the watch oils. After the panic had subsided I realised that the

14ml of oil would probably last me most of the rest of my life. Seemed a cheap hobby after that!

Merry Christmas to you all!

[clockboy]

3 hours ago, Kevin said:

I have to say the oil side of watch repair makes me smile. Back in November  put in an order

for a 55 gallon drum of 1000 weight steam oil for my traction engine. I buy about one drum a year and it lasts well.

Two weeks ago I ordered most of the oils I thought I would need for watch repair, the total quantity came to about 14ml

of oil. I paid a third of the cost of my 55gallons on the watch oils. After the panic had subsided I realised that the

14ml of oil would probably last me most of the rest of my life. Seemed a cheap hobby after that!

Merry Christmas to you all!

This subject has been posted many times. However watch lubricant lasts a long time and 14ml will lubricate many, many watches. 

[Johnnie]

3 hours ago, Kevin said:

I have to say the oil side of watch repair makes me smile. Back in November  put in an order

for a 55 gallon drum of 1000 weight steam oil for my traction engine. I buy about one drum a year and it lasts well.

Two weeks ago I ordered most of the oils I thought I would need for watch repair, the total quantity came to about 14ml

of oil. I paid a third of the cost of my 55gallons on the watch oils. After the panic had subsided I realised that the

14ml of oil would probably last me most of the rest of my life. Seemed a cheap hobby after that!

Merry Christmas to you all!

Don't worry somebody will probably invent a steam watch..... Maybe not! 

[nad]

Not a watch but there looks to be steam powerd clocks :-

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steam_clock

 

https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/steam-clock-gastown-vancouver

 

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk

 

 

 

 

 

 

[vinn3]

very interesting ! steam locomotives and steam tractors.  did they have an oil that could withstand high temp. steam?  the Lear corporation tried to re introduce the steam automobile.   it failed from piston cylinder oiling.  vin

[Kevin]

18 hours ago, vinn3 said:

very interesting ! steam locomotives and steam tractors.  did they have an oil that could withstand high temp. steam?  the Lear corporation tried to re introduce the steam automobile.   it failed from piston cylinder oiling.  vin

Most of the big oil producers/blenders still make steam cylinder oil. You want the oil to be easily carried over with the steam.

Steam oil comes in three weights (Common weights) 400, 600, and 1000. The 400 is good with lower pressure engines (150psi boiler)

the 600 works well in engines with boiler pressures around the 200psi. The 1000 is regarded as being an oil for super heated steam.

That said I use the 1000 in my wet steam 200psi engine.

Have a look at the Stanley steam cars, will open any ones eyes as to how well steam can be used.

Merry christmas.

[vinn3]

thanks,  merry christmas

[Tmuir]

I'm servicing my first pocket watch, it a 7 jewel Waltham.

I already own Moebius 9415 I use on faster beating watches, can I get away on using that on a slower beating pocket watch, or should I buy Moebius 941 too?

Also being this is only a 7 jewel movement the pallet fork pivots are not jeweled. Normally you would not oil these pivots, but I was wondering on a larger non jeweled watch like this if I should oil them and if so should I just use 9020 like I have for the rest of the pivots on the pocket watch, or would I be better to use 9010?

Also on a pocket watch balance end stones am I better using 9020 or 9010?

Pocket watches are a new territory to me.

Thanks

[StuartBaker104]

According to the BHI’s practical guide to lubrication, pallet pivot jewels under 13”’ are never lubricated. There is some debate about wheter to oil them on larger movements, but if you do then it’s the absolute minimum of 9010.

If you look around, you will see old moebius oiling charts which recommend 9010 or 8000 on pallet jewels - presumably since 941/9415 didn’t exist then. I have read that 9415 will work perfectly fine on slower escapements and therefore I have only this and not 941. Take your pick if you’d rather use 9010, but I’d use the 9415.

Balance jewels is 9010 all the way up to alarm clocks.

[rodabod]

I use 9415 on pretty much all jewelled watch pallets. I’ve even used it on clock pallets as it tends to stay in position quite well (I’d describe it as a grease). 

[canthus]

I have M941 but every service sheet I look at seems to  recommend pre-treating the stones and escape wheel teeth with epilame (Mobeus Fixodrop) to stop the very thin M941 spreading.   This does not seem to be required for M9415 as it is a thixotropic grease type oil (ie is goes very fluid only under pressure).  I understand M9451 is now acceptable in low beat escapements.   When my M941 is used up I will change to M9415.

Edited December 26, 2017 by canthus

[Tmuir]

Thank you, one less oil for me to worry about.

I wont oil the pivots on the anchor and once finished will see how it runs.

[dmar836]

Interesting all the talk online about oil alternatives and high cost. The fact is that once one splurges on the proper oils, he will likely never enter the discussion again. It's likely a one and done proposition.

JMO,

Dave

[dwhite]

First let me say I know absolutely nothing.  However, I'm reading The Watch Repairer's Manual by Henry B. Fried, 1973 edition.  In his second chapter on watch cleaning he says you need three types of lubricants:  Fine watch oil for the train and escapement pivots, clock oil for the mainspring and white vaseline for the winding mechanism.  The dust cover describes Mr. Fried as "our most eminent living horologist".  Apparently he was alive in 1973.  I'm guessing that this was the state of the art regarding lubrication in 1973.  Since he recommends cleaning and lubrication every 9 t0 12 months I don't think he is talking about synthetic watch oil.

[rsaumure]

On 12/24/2017 at 4:09 AM, Kevin said:

I have to say the oil side of watch repair makes me smile. Back in November  put in an order

for a 55 gallon drum of 1000 weight steam oil for my traction engine. I buy about one drum a year and it lasts well.

Two weeks ago I ordered most of the oils I thought I would need for watch repair, the total quantity came to about 14ml

of oil. I paid a third of the cost of my 55gallons on the watch oils. After the panic had subsided I realised that the

14ml of oil would probably last me most of the rest of my life. Seemed a cheap hobby after that!

Merry Christmas to you all!

I hear that - need the ability to buy a couple of drops at a time - to top it off a lot of these oils have shelf lives!

[GeorgeClarkson]

Hi I have seen on the bay someone selling "reconditioned" oils, are they any good? what exactly goes into the process of "reconditioning"?

[jdm]

1 hour ago, GeorgeClarkson said:

Hi I have seen on the bay someone selling "reconditioned" oils, are they any good? what exactly goes into the process of "reconditioning"?

Please post the link. I can only suppose that's a way to sell "expired" oils.

[GeorgeClarkson]

https://www.ebay.de/itm/Huile-Moebius-9010-Synt-A-Lube-Reconditionne-en-1-ml-Moebius-Oil-9010/322411302665?hash=item4b11360f09:g:NnQAAOSwNnRYk6fq