Lubricants

[ifibrin]

13 hours ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

What would be your thoughts on using Molykote DX John and where if anywhere might you use it. I think Mark suggested it .

I would use Molykote DX for the keyless works (i.e. winding stem etc.) unless you have access to epilame. Lots of ETA technical guides do use HP 1300 on the keyless works, but as @JohnR725 pointed out in the past, the keyless works are treated with epilame to stop HP1300 spreading.

[Neverenoughwatches]

5 minutes ago, ifibrin said:

I would use Molykote DX for the keyless works (i.e. winding stem etc.) unless you have access to epilame. Lots of ETA technical guides do use HP 1300 on the keyless works, but as @JohnR725 pointed out in the past, the keyless works are treated with epilame to stop HP1300 spreading.

Thanks  ifibrin. I use the dx mostly on setting levers and their springs and the click springs, but also a touch on the mainspring if only to give it a little protection.Anything that has a sliding action as opposed  to a revolving motion, I consider that the mainspring slides but really it does both slide and revolve.  I put d5 on the stem, maybe I should change this. I try to find the best location for the few lubes that I have which is only 4. I don't really want to add too much to that, as I'm trying not to overcomplicate things for myself at the moment. My tool fetish is starting to get out of hand.

[Neverenoughwatches]

Just now, Neverenoughwatches said:

Thanks  ifibrin. I use the dx mostly on setting levers and their springs and the click springs, but also a touch on the mainspring if only to give it a little protection.Anything that has a sliding action as opposed  to a revolving motion, I consider that the mainspring slides but really it does both slide and revolve.  I put d5 on the stem, maybe I should change this. I try to find the best location for the few lubes that I have which is only 4. I don't really want to add too much to that, as I'm trying not to overcomplicate things for myself at the moment. My tool fetish is starting to get out of hand.

My interest is vintage mainly Swiss, I like anything before the 70 s. Not keen on the 70s style in anything it reminds me of when I was a kid. The let's make it look new and different and cool. Maybe it did then, but most of it screams cheap and tacky looking to me now. It's crap when you develop a sense of taste it means you have to shell out more cash to be happy. So with really only wanting to handle anything over 50 years old  (I wish 70 if I'm lucky) my logic is if its reached this age with no epilame and ancient old technology oil, wouldn't the basics be way head of that anyway. 

[ifibrin]

10 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Thanks  ifibrin. I use the dx mostly on setting levers and their springs and the click springs, but also a touch on the mainspring if only to give it a little protection.Anything that has a sliding action as opposed  to a revolving motion, I consider that the mainspring slides but really it does both slide and revolve.  I put d5 on the stem, maybe I should change this. I try to find the best location for the few lubes that I have which is only 4. I don't really want to add too much to that, as I'm trying not to overcomplicate things for myself at the moment. My tool fetish is starting to get out of hand.

The reason I don’t quite like using HP1300 (d5 replacement) in keyless works is that it really spreads everywhere without epilame. This is particularly in places where there’s no capillary action to “trap” the oil, such as the winding stem, winding pinion, clutch. In other locations of the keyless work, such as the yoke, which is hinged on the post, I use HP1300 since the oil can get caught by capillary action onto the post.

[ifibrin]

4 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

My interest is vintage mainly Swiss, I like anything before the 70 s. Not keen on the 70s style in anything it reminds me of when I was a kid. The let's make it look new and different and cool. Maybe it did then, but most of it screams cheap and tacky looking to me now. It's crap when you develop a sense of taste it means you have to shell out more cash to be happy. So with really only wanting to handle anything over 50 years old  (I wish 70 if I'm lucky) my logic is if its reached this age with no epilame and ancient old technology oil, wouldn't the basics be way head of that anyway. 

Epilame and surface treatment has been around since the 50s, I believe.

[Neverenoughwatches]

58 minutes ago, ifibrin said:

Epilame and surface treatment has been around since the 50s, I believe.

That was about to be my next question thank you

[VWatchie]

51 minutes ago, Paul80 said:

When would I have to use 8217 instead of 8213.

I'm afraid I can't answer your question, but I thought I'd mention that Kluber Chronogrease P125 seems to be a very popular universal(?) braking grease.

You can have it from Cousins (5 grams) for as little as £84/€101/$109 including 20 % tax. That is, the price including tax per kg would just be £16,788/€20,257/$21,889. So, better get a kilogram life time supply before it goes up in price! 

[Neverenoughwatches]

51 minutes ago, VWatchie said:

I'm afraid I can't answer your question, but I thought I'd mention that Kluber Chronogrease P125 seems to be a very popular universal(?) braking grease.

You can have it from Cousins (5 grams) for as little as £84/€101/$109 including 20 % tax. That is, the price including tax per kg would just be £16,788/€20,257/$21,889. So, better get a kilogram life time supply before it goes up in price! 

Hi vw. Can I ask what lubes you use. I'm still trying to make my mind up, I could maybe do with a bit of a change. Thanks

[VWatchie]

3 hours ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Hi vw. Can I ask what lubes you use. I'm still trying to make my mind up, I could maybe do with a bit of a change. Thanks

Thanks for asking! Mostly Moebius! Taking a look at my latest service walkthrough (assembly sequence pictures) should give you a good idea. I believe I get better results (amplitude) with Dr. Tillwich Watch Oil 1-3 for the pallets, but I don't think it is as durable as Moebius 9415. So, I'm a bit split.

[Neverenoughwatches]

10 minutes ago, VWatchie said:

Thanks for asking! Mostly Moebius! Taking a look at my latest service walkthrough (assembly sequence pictures) should give you a good idea. I believe I get better results (amplitude) with Dr. Tillwich Watch Oil 1-3 for the pallets, but I don't think it is as durable as Moebius 9415. So, I'm a bit split.

Thanks for that. I have 9415, it's easy to place. Have you had any experience with the Novastar products?

[VWatchie]

1 hour ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Thanks for that. I have 9415, it's easy to place. Have you had any experience with the Novastar products?

I'm afraid not, but I'm curious about Russian watch oils (seriously) as I've always been very much into Russian brands such as Vostok, Poljot, and Raketa (and still am). Never got around to trying them though.

[Neverenoughwatches]

3 minutes ago, VWatchie said:

I'm afraid not, but I'm curious about Russian watch oils (seriously) as I've always been very much into Russian brands such as Vostok, Poljot, and Raketa (and still am). Never got around to trying them though.

Interesting. This is why you asked the question the other day then, about wearing Russian, ended up causing a bit of a stir haha. My favourite  and first repair watch is a Sekonda 2609ha raketa that belonged to my grandfather. I also picked up a Suba dude a few months ago and my missus bought me a vostok custom diver for Xmas. 

[VWatchie]

1 hour ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Interesting. This is why you asked the question the other day then, about wearing Russian, ended up causing a bit of a stir haha.

Yes, my post was deemed to be political although it wasn't intended to be. I guess even mentioning the word Russia in a neutral or non hateful way these troublesome and sad times makes you a Putin collaborator.

1 hour ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

My favourite  and first repair watch is a Sekonda 2609ha raketa that belonged to my grandfather.

That's just wonderful! I have my grandfather's (born 1910) watch and my son is named after my grandfather. One day, perhaps when he turns 18, I'm going to give that watch to my son.

1 hour ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

I also picked up a Suba dude a few months ago and my missus bought me a vostok custom diver for Xmas.

I suppose you just misspelled Scuba (it's called "Scuba Dude"). Anyway, really nice, and I like the Komandirskies just as much as the Amphibians (amazing value for money!)

Good to know I'm not alone in appreciating these Russian watches. I guess Russian watchmakers are human too, despite the horrible war.

[Neverenoughwatches]

1 hour ago, VWatchie said:

Yes, my post was deemed to be political although it wasn't intended to be. I guess even mentioning the word Russia in a neutral or non hateful way these troublesome and sad times makes you a Putin collaborator.

That's just wonderful! I have my grandfather's (born 1910) watch and my son is named after my grandfather. One day, perhaps when he turns 18, I'm going to give that watch to my son.

I suppose you just misspelled Scuba (it's called "Scuba Dude"). Anyway, really nice, and I like the Komandirskies just as much as the Amphibians (amazing value for money!)

Good to know I'm not alone in appreciating these Russian watches. I guess Russian watchmakers are human too, despite the horrible war.

Wow you must be my brother from another mother. My grandfather was born the same year and my daughter Is named after my grandmother. Sorry the suba was a predictive misspelling. I'll post it up tomorrow. 

[gbyleveldt]

I also like the Russian watches, albeit only became aware of them recently (because I’m pretty new to this). They do seem to be better regulated out the box than the new Seiko’s I have, so I was impressed by the low price vs performance of these. I still want to open them up and have a look inside.

 

[Neverenoughwatches]

30 minutes ago, gbyleveldt said:

I also like the Russian watches, albeit only became aware of them recently (because I’m pretty new to this). They do seem to be better regulated out the box than the new Seiko’s I have, so I was impressed by the low price vs performance of these. I still want to open them up and have a look inside.

 

Haha. Why would you if it runs well my very curious WRT buddy. My scuba dude is surprisingly accurate, I'm guessing it's 70s maybe 80s looking at the state of the case, it's a bit battered. Starts up straight away as soon as I pick it up and the reserve lasts ages. Apparently used by Russian marines and the KGB. Do you like the wobbly crown ?

[Neverenoughwatches]

6 hours ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Wow you must be my brother from another mother. My grandfather was born the same year and my daughter Is named after my grandmother. Sorry the suba was a predictive misspelling. I'll post it up tomorrow. 

Morning matey, it's a cracking start to the day here in Yorkshire Uk. I hope your weather is good to you today as well. A work day for me , I have to pay for my obsession somehow. I might start selling my body lol

Edited April 19, 2022 by Neverenoughwatches

[gbyleveldt]

21 hours ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Haha. Why would you if it runs well my very curious WRT buddy. My scuba dude is surprisingly accurate, I'm guessing it's 70s maybe 80s looking at the state of the case, it's a bit battered. Starts up straight away as soon as I pick it up and the reserve lasts ages. Apparently used by Russian marines and the KGB. Do you like the wobbly crown ?

Heh, because curiosity killed the cat. I suspect there to be the cheapest of materials in there, with heavy handed oil application and spoons full of shellac on the pallet fork. And maybe, just maybe, we’re all being so **BLEEP** about oil amounts, down to the nano litre, being critical to how a watch works reliably - only to see that good enough is also perfect. 

Don’t get me wrong; being meticulous is a good thing. But spending 100% extra effort in one area to get 10% result is different than spending 10% extra effort elsewhere for 100% result. Understanding where the point of diminishing returns is. Anyway, part of any journey I guess.

That was the long answer. Short answer is: Why not? Hahahahaa

Yup, that wobbly crown is interesting. I don’t care for it, but it’s a case of function over form, like anything Russian. Simple, reliable fix for a complex problem. It’s the same kind of approach with an AK. Ugly and basic as you can get, but you can’t argue with results (firearms are another hobby of mine)

 

Edit: I see **BLEEP** is a bad word. Well I guess using **BLEEP** in a sentence is only bad if you’re mind is in the gutter. **BLEEP** is a perfectly valid word to use in casual conversation. Unless you are **BLEEP** retentive 

Edited April 20, 2022 by gbyleveldt

[Neverenoughwatches]

1 hour ago, gbyleveldt said:

Heh, because curiosity killed the cat. I suspect there to be the cheapest of materials in there, with heavy handed oil application and spoons full of shellac on the pallet fork. And maybe, just maybe, we’re all being so **BLEEP** about oil amounts, down to the nano litre, being critical to how a watch works reliably - only to see that good enough is also perfect. 

Don’t get me wrong; being meticulous is a good thing. But spending 100% extra effort in one area to get 10% result is different than spending 10% extra effort elsewhere for 100% result. Understanding where the point of diminishing returns is. Anyway, part of any journey I guess.

That was the long answer. Short answer is: Why not? Hahahahaa

Yup, that wobbly crown is interesting. I don’t care for it, but it’s a case of function over form, like anything Russian. Simple, reliable fix for a complex problem. It’s the same kind of approach with an AK. Ugly and basic as you can get, but you can’t argue with results (firearms are another hobby of mine)

 

Edit: I see **BLEEP** is a bad word. Well I guess using **BLEEP** in a sentence is only bad if you’re mind is in the gutter. **BLEEP** is a perfectly valid word to use in casual conversation. Unless you are **BLEEP** retentive 

Haha. Well put my bleep friend, I like your style. I managed to get round the bleeping bleeps. My thoughts exactly on the watches a rugged industrial it does what it says on the tin approach to watch making. And paralysis by analysis, one of my favourite phrases, just get the bleeping job done and stop being so bleep about it haha

[Neverenoughwatches]

5 hours ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Haha. Well put my bleep friend, I like your style. I managed to get round the bleeping bleeps. My thoughts exactly on the watches a rugged industrial it does what it says on the tin approach to watch making. And paralysis by analysis, one of my favourite phrases, just get the bleeping job done and stop being so bleep about it haha

Where are you residing my friend ? Just so I know how to approach  you

[gbyleveldt]

3 hours ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Where are you residing my friend ? Just so I know how to approach  you

Man you need to work out how the quote function works. I've seen you replying to yourself and then thought, hmmmm, gotta keep an eye on that one. (just messing with you man).

I'm in mostly sunny South Africa. In general I prefer being approached with an ice cold beer. Rum and coke if you hate your liver.

[Neverenoughwatches]

24 minutes ago, gbyleveldt said:

Man you need to work out how the quote function works. I've seen you replying to yourself and then thought, hmmmm, gotta keep an eye on that one. (just messing with you man).

I'm in mostly sunny South Africa. In general I prefer being approached with an ice cold beer. Rum and coke if you hate your liver.

Haha. I know I'm shit at this . I am 55. Eyes are getting dim, brain is getting foggy. I like you, you have an attitude and a sense of humour.  Two things that don't particularly  fit in well here, especially  as a newcomer.  I think we will get on just fine, and hopefully between us **BLEEP** off  a few  of the # I'm up my own arse # members. 

Edited April 20, 2022 by Neverenoughwatches

[VWatchie]

On 4/19/2022 at 7:56 AM, gbyleveldt said:

I also like the Russian watches, albeit only became aware of them recently (because I’m pretty new to this). They do seem to be better regulated out the box than the new Seiko’s I have, so I was impressed by the low price vs performance of these. I still want to open them up and have a look inside.

 

We're straying off topic (Lubricants) but I'd just like to mention that, as much as I love these Russian watches (and no, I'm not for the war in Ukraine), one common problem is their QC. Most notably, the jewels seem to be of poor quality. They are often thin, bright, and very, very brittle.

In my experience, almost half of all Vostok watches that I have serviced/repaired have had damaged jewels. Sometimes the flaws are obvious, but more often only detectable under a stereo microscope. It's not that these, less than perfect, jewels affect the running of the watch too badly, but I always replace them nevertheless.

However, sometimes it can be a bit challenging to find replacement jewels having the right dimensions. Yesterday, for example, I needed to replace the main plate jewel for the ratchet wheel driving wheel of a Vostok 2431. It's dimensions are 80/25, and good luck finding a replacement jewel for such as small jewel with such a large hole. No wonder it easily shatters. The only solution was to get a donor watch. Luckily I had a Vostok 2415 having this jewel still intact.

Anyway, in my opinion, the Vostok movements are some of the best value for money in existence.

Edited April 23, 2022 by VWatchie

[JohnR725]

13 minutes ago, VWatchie said:

We're straying off topic (Lubricants)

Maybe if I ask a lubrication question we can keep both subjects going? Did we figure out if the Russian watches are using a different lubrication?

[Neverenoughwatches]

30 minutes ago, VWatchie said:

About Russian watches, and Vostok in particular. Now, to stay somewhat on topic, 

We're straying off topic (Lubricants) but I'd just like to mention that, as much as I love these Russian watches (and no, I'm not for the war in Ukraine), one common problem is their QC. Most notably, the jewels seem to be of poor quality. They are often thin, bright, and very, very brittle.

In my experience, almost half of all Vostok watches that I have serviced/repaired have had damaged jewels. Sometimes the flaws are obvious, but more often only detectable under a stereo microscope. It's not that these, less than perfect, jewels affect the running of the watch too badly, but I always replace them nevertheless.

However, sometimes it can be a bit challenging to find replacement jewels having the right dimensions. Yesterday, for example, I needed to replace the main plate jewel for the ratchet wheel driving wheel of a Vostok 2431. It's dimensions are 80/25, and good luck finding a replacement jewel for such as small jewel with such a large hole. No wonder it easily shatters. The only solution was to get a donor watch. Luckily I had a Vostok 2415 having this jewel still intact.

Anyway, in my opinion, the Vostok movements are some of the best value for money in existence.

Hi VWatchie.  I agree with that and love my custom Amphibia.  Are you Abe to compare them to a seiko 5. Supposedly  the best value for money.