Lubricants

[grsnovi]

I thought the Moebius kit would be a good place to start. Somebody had suggested the following four: 9010, D5, 9501 and 9415.

At the moment I'm not looking to have my work inspected all I want is to do a reasonable lube job on the 313 Elgin that I've taken apart and cleaned. I don't expect to case the movement or sell it as having been serviced. 

I am thinking that I might take apart, clean and lube my own Zenith hand wound 655 with a date and RDM. I just had my IWC serviced and it cost me $600. From my limited experience with the Elgin it seems doable (albeit with some more practice on my part) but so far I've not done any lubrication at all. I don't think $600. to clean and oil a watch is reasonable.

Not that that was my reason for exploring this any way...

[TimpanogosSlim]

1 hour ago, grsnovi said:

I thought the Moebius kit would be a good place to start. Somebody had suggested the following four: 9010, D5, 9501 and 9415.

I am a newbie, but it seems like 9501 is a good grease for keyless works that costs a whole lot of money, and you could sub another good grease that isn't near as expensive like molykote 44. or Nye PML Stem Grease, available from otto frei and some other supply houses. 

[JohnR725]

1 hour ago, grsnovi said:

9501

9504 would be better is 9501 with an additive of a high-pressure boron lubricant. With the added bonus it comes in slightly smaller 5 mL bottle I believe which makes the cost slightly cheaper

[grsnovi]

I'm not sure that "better" matters on a 100 year old "practice" movement. I was simply looking for a one-stop-shop way to get a group of lubricants that would suffice during my practice. I'm not concerned at this point with getting the best or the cheapest. In any case the first place that I ordered the "kit" was out of stock so I've ordered the same kit from a second source. I suspect that as I get better and perhaps if I decide to service my Zenith, I'll be more interested in what is suggested by the mfg.

[TimpanogosSlim]

20 hours ago, grsnovi said:

I'm not sure that "better" matters on a 100 year old "practice" movement. I was simply looking for a one-stop-shop way to get a group of lubricants that would suffice during my practice. I'm not concerned at this point with getting the best or the cheapest. In any case the first place that I ordered the "kit" was out of stock so I've ordered the same kit from a second source. I suspect that as I get better and perhaps if I decide to service my Zenith, I'll be more interested in what is suggested by the mfg.

It'll work great. Lots of us just have heartburn about how many more tools and watches we could buy with the money spent on lubricants. 

[Neverenoughwatches]

On 4/5/2020 at 2:07 PM, mikepilk said:

I have used DX for keyless work for several years, since Mark recommended it : 

Me also, advised  by Mark and Kalle at Cronoglide. 2 relatively  different  watchmakers. One British and one Swiss. Both exceptional In their own right

[Neverenoughwatches]

Hi everyone. I'm very new to the forum and hope I can bring good discussions to the table. Also I'm quite new to watch repair but i'm a very curious bugger and love to learn new things and find different solutions to problems. The title I know is going to make the long standing members groan and think oh no please not havoc again,but newbies (I myself am only a few days in)  are joining all the time and need the knowledge of this heavily debated topic. So to save us trolling through years of old posts, would it be OK to start afresh ?  Older members thoughts on the subject may have also changed and evolved and have something new to say. And new members may pose different  questions that are worth a discussion, I have a few. Having the right knowledge  and correct information from the start saves time and money for us newies, which leads to more of us staying with the hobby. Young hobbyists can very well be our countries much needed next generation of watchmakers. I so wish I had started 40 years ago. As a beginner one of my first questions  to ask myself was which OIL should I use, little did I realise of the multitude to choose from or how many I would actually need to just get by. So if I may again pose this frequently asked question on behalf of all recently joined beginner members. What would be the minimum requirement to do an acceptable service on a basic average  priced watch in a financial ecconomic way. Rich

[berlintime]

Yeah, ive got:

Moebius 9010

Moebius 9415 

Moebius 8200

Moebius 8217

HP 1300

Molykote DX

It covers the basic essentials but I definetly plan on expanding

[Neverenoughwatches]

On 1/9/2014 at 2:29 AM, Dwdrummer97 said:

As I am just getting my work area started I need to know what grease and oils I need to have on hand.  I see that there are many different kinds but I am wondering what are the basics that you can start with to service most movements.  

Hi I've just started a new discussion on this, then ran away to wait for the verbal carnage  to ensue lol. Oils and lubricants a vastly debated topic though maybe not as much as their placement. A very important  subject for beginners  to learn. I watched youtubers Mark Lovack also a moderator on here and Kalle at chronoglide. I took  advice from these two superb watchmakers which was similar and has served me well so far. I use 4 different  ones at the moment. Mobius 9010 synthetic oil for small train wheel pivots such as escape wheels, also balance shaft pivots. Mobius D5 which I think is mineral based and so much cheaper than a synthetic oil but was advised to use so went with that. Molykote DX for the keyless works, this is very cheap by comparison to anything Mobius supply, a tube will last you absolute  ages as non professional. And finally Mobius 9415 for pallet jewels though not essential  as a beginner.  Mobius do 2 types of pallet jewel lubricant. One is of an oil type viscosity the other a little heavier like a grease, I prefer this type it just seems more manageable to place as a beginner.  All the Mobius stuff I bought from cousins but it should be obtainable on ebay, I think Cousins is a safer bet tbh. I would definitely  check out watchrepair channel and chronglide.

[Neverenoughwatches]

Just now, Neverenoughwatches said:

Hi I've just started a new discussion on this, then ran away to wait for the verbal carnage  to ensue lol. Oils and lubricants a vastly debated topic though maybe not as much as their placement. A very important  subject for beginners  to learn. I watched youtubers Mark Lovack also a moderator on here and Kalle at chronoglide. I took  advice from these two superb watchmakers which was similar and has served me well so far. I use 4 different  ones at the moment. Mobius 9010 synthetic oil for small train wheel pivots such as escape wheels, also balance shaft pivots. Mobius D5 which I think is mineral based and so much cheaper than a synthetic oil but was advised to use so went with that. Molykote DX for the keyless works, this is very cheap by comparison to anything Mobius supply, a tube will last you absolute  ages as non professional. And finally Mobius 9415 for pallet jewels though not essential  as a beginner.  Mobius do 2 types of pallet jewel lubricant. One is of an oil type viscosity the other a little heavier like a grease, I prefer this type it just seems more manageable to place as a beginner.  All the Mobius stuff I bought from cousins but it should be obtainable on ebay, I think Cousins is a safer bet tbh. I would definitely  check out watchrepair channel and chronglide.

I will add that the Mobius gear is extremely  expensive.  Novastar make  cheaper alternatives, I can't comment on their products though. Look at their viscosity  ranges and compare to Mobius plus some research as to watch part general viscosity requirements just to get you started. Oil properties will take you much deeper into this topic but for now as a beginner hopefully working on low value watches not really worth adding to the confusion. What I've recommended will easily get you by to achieve basic service  and have the pleasure of see non runners spring into life.

[Neverenoughwatches]

7 hours ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

I will add that the Mobius gear is extremely  expensive.  Novastar make  cheaper alternatives, I can't comment on their products though. Look at their viscosity  ranges and compare to Mobius plus some research as to watch part general viscosity requirements just to get you started. Oil properties will take you much deeper into this topic but for now as a beginner hopefully working on low value watches not really worth adding to the confusion. What I've recommended will easily get you by to achieve basic service  and have the pleasure of see non runners spring into life.

Sorry forgot to add my D5 usage. I use it on higher friction areas such as the center wheel pivot points, barrel arbors, crown wheel shafts, barrel bearings, cannon pinions shafts and the hour wheel shaft ( cannon pinion) and on various points of the stem. I put a very small amount of Molykote DX  on the mainspring. Now a lot of this might not be absolutely correct, but I am an enthusiast and I only have 4 lubes to play with so until I decide to take a step up or I have one of my watches fail at some point will I change this selection. Unlikely  I have covered all areas of the watch. I did pick up this very basic guide as what to use and where to use it. And that is, if it revolves then use an oil, if it slides then use a grease. Obviously  there are some exceptions to this basic guide, the pallet jewels as an example. Faster revolving points would need a thinner oil, slower revolving points that have higher friction involved then a thicker oil. A very basic outline, so I would suggest apply your own logic to this and plenty  of researching to back up your own theories behind it. It will start your grey matter turning over if nothing else. For low cost practise watches only acquired from joblot ebay purchases.  Disclaimer alert - I won't be responsible for any Golden Eye Omegas being ruined or anything worth more than a quid for that matter.

[Neverenoughwatches]

On 4/4/2022 at 3:37 AM, grsnovi said:

I thought the Moebius kit would be a good place to start. Somebody had suggested the following four: 9010, D5, 9501 and 9415.

At the moment I'm not looking to have my work inspected all I want is to do a reasonable lube job on the 313 Elgin that I've taken apart and cleaned. I don't expect to case the movement or sell it as having been serviced. 

I am thinking that I might take apart, clean and lube my own Zenith hand wound 655 with a date and RDM. I just had my IWC serviced and it cost me $600. From my limited experience with the Elgin it seems doable (albeit with some more practice on my part) but so far I've not done any lubrication at all. I don't think $600. to clean and oil a watch is reasonable.

Not that that was my reason for exploring this any way...

I'm sorry but I can't not mention that many of us on here are newbies and some very new to this fascinating hobby. We have very little knowledge of what we are doing and need nurturing in a kind, caring and understanding way. We're  not scientists or lab technicians or any other really clever type of person that can understand clever things. We need explanations in a laymantermable ( I think I've just made a word up there ) fashion. An oil is an oil thin or thick, thin goes here, thick goes there, stick some grease on that. That's as much as we need to know for the time being. It's good to know basically what to use and where to use it and nice to know why. But an in depth explanation as to why a JCB69STD007 fully synthetic semi mineral based 147  micron diamond particle salad cream paste would be used on a case screw. And why their highly unlikely surface tension reaction to each other at a molecular level, could cause the watch to self destruct and shift the earth from its stable orbit in 416 years give or take 16 seconds if NOT used, to be honest is completely  wasted on us, me especially.  I think you get my point . Keep it simple please a lot of us are tinkering around with 3 quid epay scrappers, we're happy if it ticks for a few hours. Not that we don't appreciate any help we get, it's greatfully welcomed. Some of us might be thick as s--t, I'm in the presence of one such individual at the moment texting on his phone with a ridiculous  grin on his face. Sweet and simple until we grow a few more brain cells. Thanks. Rant over

[PostwarO27]

Two year newbie here using:

Moebius 8000 on all train pivots and winding wheel studs.
Moebius 9010 on the escapement pivots: balance, pallet and escape wheel.
Moebius 9415 on pallet jewels.
Moebius 8200 on all spring interfaces and winding pinion/stem.
Moebius 8217 on barrel walls (auto only).

keep in mind that every movement I've worked on are considered "vintage"  and of the two dozen or so movements I managed to get running again, I've had no issue with this combo.  The 'newest' movement was a super clean Omega 620 from 1970.

[LittleWatchShop]

Was curious so I priced these in $$. 

 

[JohnR725]

2 hours ago, PostwarO27 said:

Moebius 8000 on all train pivots and winding wheel studs.
Moebius 9010 on the escapement pivots: balance, pallet and escape wheel.

I think you're doing things backwards here? Usually the heavier the viscosity the heavier the load. So like on the balance wheel the pallet you do something light and on the gear train and winding wheel studs you want to use something heavier. As opposed to what you're doing which is exactly the opposite.

I would make a different recommendation for lubrication but instead as you already have these just toss the 8000 put it away someplace as I think it's too light for the applications you're using it for and it has the added bonus of a very short shelf life. I still think the 9010 is too light and I have other issues with that but as you already have it just use it for everything.

 

 

[Neverenoughwatches]

43 minutes ago, JohnR725 said:

I think you're doing things backwards here? Usually the heavier the viscosity the heavier the load. So like on the balance wheel the pallet you do something light and on the gear train and winding wheel studs you want to use something heavier. As opposed to what you're doing which is exactly the opposite.

I would make a different recommendation for lubrication but instead as you already have these just toss the 8000 put it away someplace as I think it's too light for the applications you're using it for and it has the added bonus of a very short shelf life. I still think the 9010 is too light and I have other issues with that but as you already have it just use it for everything.

 

 

What would be your thoughts on using Molykote DX John and where if anywhere might you use it. I think Mark suggested it .

[Neverenoughwatches]

Just now, Neverenoughwatches said:

What would be your thoughts on using Molykote DX John and where if anywhere might you use it. I think Mark suggested it .

🏳

[JohnR725]

31 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

What would be your thoughts on using Molykote DX

Disclaimer? One of my fascination is the insanity of lubrication and yes insanity is the correct word. Did you know there are some horological discussion groups out there one in particular that goes out of its way to never discuss lubrication because it's a very opinionated subject.

Strangely enough Molykote DX? I think I was at a lecture were somebody recommended it and I acquired a tube and it still here I don't think I've ever used for anything? I do know that some people on this group use it as a grease on all the high-pressure stuff like the keyless mechanism etc.

Normally if you look at any of the professional recommendations like the Omega number 40 lubrication guide that you can find on the cousins website it says chronograph components. I've also snipped out something from a magazine you notice it basically agrees chronograph components.

Another amusement regarding a lubrication? At the same lecture where someone recommended the Molykote DX and a whole bunch of other stuff and also pointed out that lubrication has shelflife.  Recognizing that the lubrication I had at home was old I thought maybe I should replace it and budgeted I believe $250 I ran out of money it went over budget by a couple hundred. I then decided that the synthetic lubricants should last forever and I'm never going to upgrade ever again At least at home. Then at the next meeting I commented the individual did you go those lubricants were really expensive? But that brings up another problem but if you're working in a shop like he was all the lubricants just showed up he had zero idea of the cost. For instance at work I asked couple of times that like to have some 9504 and it showed up currently I like it is my favorite grease. n the other hand it comes in a 5 mL bottle at thing about half the cost of the 9501 that used to be recommended.

Let's look at the link below? I see the Molykote DX it's not cheap it's about $30.The PML stem grease at just under $20 used to be my old favorite. Don't know where else you can buy don't know how many people sell that. The KT 22 Looks promising and it's really cheap. Then there's a German company that makes lubricants don't see it listed here they have a grease you can find in train stores I believe I think it's called b52 Is probably equivalent to my PML stem grease perhaps I don't know the consistency of it I'm always too cheap to buy something just try for the fun of it.

https://www.ofrei.com/page245.html

Oh for technical specs for the Molykote can be found the link below and as soon as I find a PDF to snip an image out let's see what it says about the Molykote.

https://www.dupont.com/products/molykote-dx-paste.html

 

 

 

 

[LittleWatchShop]

22 minutes ago, JohnR725 said:

it's a very opinionated subject

My brother restores classic cars...he says the same insanity exists among the car enthusiasts.

Mobil 1...Ford Synthetic Blend...Castrol GX...3000 miles...6000 miles...15,000 miles...NEVER??  LOL  With or without a filter at each change...bla bla bla  I change my own oil BTW.

 

23 minutes ago, JohnR725 said:

some people on this group use it as a grease on all the high-pressure stuff like the keyless mechanism

I do...I am an amateur.

23 minutes ago, JohnR725 said:

I then decided that the synthetic lubricants should last forever

AMEN!  Preach on!!!  (BTW...many OTC drugs are the same)

ELGIN WATCH OIL...all the way!!!!

Disclaimer:  I am a horological amateur

 

[Neverenoughwatches]

32 minutes ago, JohnR725 said:

Disclaimer? One of my fascination is the insanity of lubrication and yes insanity is the correct word. Did you know there are some horological discussion groups out there one in particular that goes out of its way to never discuss lubrication because it's a very opinionated subject.

Strangely enough Molykote DX? I think I was at a lecture were somebody recommended it and I acquired a tube and it still here I don't think I've ever used for anything? I do know that some people on this group use it as a grease on all the high-pressure stuff like the keyless mechanism etc.

Normally if you look at any of the professional recommendations like the Omega number 40 lubrication guide that you can find on the cousins website it says chronograph components. I've also snipped out something from a magazine you notice it basically agrees chronograph components.

Another amusement regarding a lubrication? At the same lecture where someone recommended the Molykote DX and a whole bunch of other stuff and also pointed out that lubrication has shelflife.  Recognizing that the lubrication I had at home was old I thought maybe I should replace it and budgeted I believe $250 I ran out of money it went over budget by a couple hundred. I then decided that the synthetic lubricants should last forever and I'm never going to upgrade ever again At least at home. Then at the next meeting I commented the individual did you go those lubricants were really expensive? But that brings up another problem but if you're working in a shop like he was all the lubricants just showed up he had zero idea of the cost. For instance at work I asked couple of times that like to have some 9504 and it showed up currently I like it is my favorite grease. n the other hand it comes in a 5 mL bottle at thing about half the cost of the 9501 that used to be recommended.

Let's look at the link below? I see the Molykote DX it's not cheap it's about $30.The PML stem grease at just under $20 used to be my old favorite. Don't know where else you can buy don't know how many people sell that. The KT 22 Looks promising and it's really cheap. Then there's a German company that makes lubricants don't see it listed here they have a grease you can find in train stores I believe I think it's called b52 Is probably equivalent to my PML stem grease perhaps I don't know the consistency of it I'm always too cheap to buy something just try for the fun of it.

https://www.ofrei.com/page245.html

Oh for technical specs for the Molykote can be found the link below and as soon as I find a PDF to snip an image out let's see what it says about the Molykote.

https://www.dupont.com/products/molykote-dx-paste.html

 

 

 

 

Thank you for that John. Dupont make the Molykote sound good.  I don't understand much about lubricants, my logic just thinks if it can remove or at least reduce friction wear to a minimum and stay where its puts then its working. Obviously  the correct viscosity range is very important as different pressure loads applied to the oil will eventually start to disperse it. Are extra additives used to help stop this from happening and also increase the oils adhesive nature.

[Neverenoughwatches]

18 minutes ago, LittleWatchShop said:

My brother restores classic cars...he says the same insanity exists among the car enthusiasts.

Mobil 1...Ford Synthetic Blend...Castrol GX...3000 miles...6000 miles...15,000 miles...NEVER??  LOL  With or without a filter at each change...bla bla bla  I change my own oil BTW.

 

I do...I am an amateur.

AMEN!  Preach on!!!  (BTW...many OTC drugs are the same)

ELGIN WATCH OIL...all the way!!!!

Disclaimer:  I am a horological amateur

 

Ok OK chill please. I've only just got him to talk to me .

[Neverenoughwatches]

14 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Ok OK chill please. I've only just got him to talk to me .

We're doing lunch week, don't you spoil it for me. I can track you down, I can, really I can

[Neverenoughwatches]

Just now, Neverenoughwatches said:

We're doing lunch week, don't you spoil it for me. I can track you down, I can, really I can

You see the dog in my profile, she will help me find you, and when we do I will make her lick your face off

[JohnR725]

4 hours ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Dupont make the Molykote sound good. 

I horological lubrication has properties?

Let's look at what we're trying to do? We want to lubricate a watch to run for the next 5 to 7 years. Yes I don't want to hear about it I've heard rumors that Rolex is going for 10 years but?

Let's look at the fantasy properly clean your watch lubricated service it again in X number years. During that time it should work every single day it should keep time and he basically perfect. We also get a time limit in gaskets breaking down moisture getting into the case and rust is an incredibly nice grinding compound in a watch.

Let's go back to the Rolex example or Swatch group for that matter? I know people of work for Swatch group anything resembling any kind of a problem things are replaced.  timing issues amplitude issues new escape wheel and pallet fork. I think it's automatically almost standard practice on the coaxial  that its components are replaced. So they go for a longer service interval because they're going to replace components unfortunately we don't have the luxury of that and we can't get some other components.

So simplistic as horological lubrication has to work for an extremely long period of time and not  go bad and continue to do its job. This is where a lot of the industrial lubricants look really promising  but not sure if they publish that it's okay to put it on and come back in seven years. This is one of the problems with automotive oils they're not supposed to last necessarily seven years are supposed to do a very specific job vey different from watch repair.

 

4 hours ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Obviously  the correct viscosity range is very important as different pressure loads applied to the oil will eventually start to disperse it. Are extra additives used to help stop this from happening and also increase the oils adhesive nature.

Minor little thing before I go back into my insanity of lubrication? The specifications that we don't have and I'm not a chemical engineer so I know there's things that I suspect that may or may not be true. Like contact angle is occasionally mentioned. If you use something like epilam to treat your watch it changes the contact angle so the lubrication's do not spread. What about if you use poor cleaning methods and you leave a microscopic film of oil behind what is that going to do for you? I think is basically the opposite of epilam it changes the contact angle in a bad way and your oil will spread. But that's just a speculation on my part sort of?

Viscosities a really interesting subject let's give an example I'm attaching a couple of PDFs. Yet the cover page it tells you which watch it is all that's really important is the date and the back page which lists the lubricants.

Oh you're missing something by the way? The missing things from most technical guides until relatively recently is cleaning procedures and other stuff like epilam? That's because Omega and other companies have supplemental documentation that you may or may not ever lay your hands on. This means you can follow what the manufacturer recommends but you're missing key information. For instance the Omega lubrication guide of 1957 that would be people for both of these PDFs covers cleaning and epilam. Amusingly the pallet fork is not treated as they fear it would stick to the banking pins. Where today some people treat just the pallet tools but in this guide it's not recommended at all. They also don't recommend doing the complete balance wheel but they do you the balance pivots. Another words the plates the keyless works all of that has been treated

The Omega 540 guide 1958 the notice on the PDFs I copied the cover page so we can see a date the watch and let's go to the back page and we see a name yes the used use names now these numbers. Either have to have memorized all those names or you can look at the link below and look up what they are Notice the parts of the top of the page basically the keyless mechanism they're using Synt-A-Lube We know this is 9010 with the viscosity of 150. In other words the using insanely in lubrication that we typically use on balance pivots only at least most people not me insanely thin and the only reason they can get away with it is they used epilam.

Okay what about the technical guide they progressed a few more years I think they're grasping the viscosity might be important? 1963 and were using Synta-Visco-Lube This is a viscosity of 270 it's also my light oil of choice. But don't worry there's still using 9010 is farther down on the page for the balance pivots the escape wheel on the fourth wheel but not on the pallet the using something else.

Unfortunately logic and horological lubrication does not exactly go together especially if you look  at the technical documentation of the watch companies.

5 hours ago, LittleWatchShop said:

ELGIN WATCH OIL...all the way!!!!

The sad aspect of this is we can't buy that oil in this country if it's new. The company that synthesized it Chose to put the word Elgin on the bottle and supposedly according to the rumor you can't be sold in this country. This means were stuck with buying ancient bottles of ancient oil that fortunately doesn't have an expiry date on the bottle because it doesn't seem to ever expire?

 

Omega Oil 269.PDF Omega Oil 540.PDF

[Neverenoughwatches]

1 hour ago, JohnR725 said:

I horological lubrication has properties?

Let's look at what we're trying to do? We want to lubricate a watch to run for the next 5 to 7 years. Yes I don't want to hear about it I've heard rumors that Rolex is going for 10 years but?

Let's look at the fantasy properly clean your watch lubricated service it again in X number years. During that time it should work every single day it should keep time and he basically perfect. We also get a time limit in gaskets breaking down moisture getting into the case and rust is an incredibly nice grinding compound in a watch.

Let's go back to the Rolex example or Swatch group for that matter? I know people of work for Swatch group anything resembling any kind of a problem things are replaced.  timing issues amplitude issues new escape wheel and pallet fork. I think it's automatically almost standard practice on the coaxial  that its components are replaced. So they go for a longer service interval because they're going to replace components unfortunately we don't have the luxury of that and we can't get some other components.

So simplistic as horological lubrication has to work for an extremely long period of time and not  go bad and continue to do its job. This is where a lot of the industrial lubricants look really promising  but not sure if they publish that it's okay to put it on and come back in seven years. This is one of the problems with automotive oils they're not supposed to last necessarily seven years are supposed to do a very specific job vey different from watch repair.

 

Minor little thing before I go back into my insanity of lubrication? The specifications that we don't have and I'm not a chemical engineer so I know there's things that I suspect that may or may not be true. Like contact angle is occasionally mentioned. If you use something like epilam to treat your watch it changes the contact angle so the lubrication's do not spread. What about if you use poor cleaning methods and you leave a microscopic film of oil behind what is that going to do for you? I think is basically the opposite of epilam it changes the contact angle in a bad way and your oil will spread. But that's just a speculation on my part sort of?

Viscosities a really interesting subject let's give an example I'm attaching a couple of PDFs. Yet the cover page it tells you which watch it is all that's really important is the date and the back page which lists the lubricants.

Oh you're missing something by the way? The missing things from most technical guides until relatively recently is cleaning procedures and other stuff like epilam? That's because Omega and other companies have supplemental documentation that you may or may not ever lay your hands on. This means you can follow what the manufacturer recommends but you're missing key information. For instance the Omega lubrication guide of 1957 that would be people for both of these PDFs covers cleaning and epilam. Amusingly the pallet fork is not treated as they fear it would stick to the banking pins. Where today some people treat just the pallet tools but in this guide it's not recommended at all. They also don't recommend doing the complete balance wheel but they do you the balance pivots. Another words the plates the keyless works all of that has been treated

The Omega 540 guide 1958 the notice on the PDFs I copied the cover page so we can see a date the watch and let's go to the back page and we see a name yes the used use names now these numbers. Either have to have memorized all those names or you can look at the link below and look up what they are Notice the parts of the top of the page basically the keyless mechanism they're using Synt-A-Lube We know this is 9010 with the viscosity of 150. In other words the using insanely in lubrication that we typically use on balance pivots only at least most people not me insanely thin and the only reason they can get away with it is they used epilam.

Okay what about the technical guide they progressed a few more years I think they're grasping the viscosity might be important? 1963 and were using Synta-Visco-Lube This is a viscosity of 270 it's also my light oil of choice. But don't worry there's still using 9010 is farther down on the page for the balance pivots the escape wheel on the fourth wheel but not on the pallet the using something else.

Unfortunately logic and horological lubrication does not exactly go together especially if you look  at the technical documentation of the watch companies.

The sad aspect of this is we can't buy that oil in this country if it's new. The company that synthesized it Chose to put the word Elgin on the bottle and supposedly according to the rumor you can't be sold in this country. This means were stuck with buying ancient bottles of ancient oil that fortunately doesn't have an expiry date on the bottle because it doesn't seem to ever expire?

 

Omega Oil 269.PDF 953.61 kB · 0 downloads Omega Oil 540.PDF 715.58 kB · 0 downloads

Thanks John. I've come to the decision I like you, you make me think. I will have to go over your post a second time though  because not all of that has sank in and my brain now hurts a little  And the pdfs I will need a little time to get my head around I imagine. Swatch are very good at holding things back to make everyone else's life's difficult as the last 20 years have shown as have other major Swiss makers so it's of no surprise that any documentation that they can hide away is also for that same reason. And to add insult to injury, "oh we've finally got the go ahead to now completely stop suppling anyone we don't like with our parts and to really rub your ffing nose in it we are releasing something that will have your public clamoring over each other to get" enter the Swatch Moonwatch. Swiss f---ers. There will be more such releases to create public mania I'm sure. Rant about that over for now. I do have other questions regarding lubrication to ask John when you have time. One such would be your personal thoughts on synthetic versus mineral. I can't decide whether the eventual evaporation of a synthetic oil and having a watch that now has virtually no lubrication is more or less damaging to a watch than a watch that has been using a mineral oil that has eventually become a dried out grinding paste and has slowly ground the watch to a halt. Would a semi synthetic oil be a better option ? Would a combination of seperate synthetic and mineral oil be a better option. Obviously a service before any of that happens is the best option but in some cases that's not going to happen. A watch collector of any description should know to have his watch serviced that's a given.But unfortunately there are unscrupulous repairers out there that couldn't give a monkey's what lubes  they use, how its applied or how long it will do its job as long as that's a year or so. So they can get paid and then maybe have someone come back to complain so then have to make up some excuse as to why it has now stopped working. Second rant over, it's going to be a long day. So anyway John any replys on the synth or mineral would be appreciated.