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Winding pinion & clutch woes


Chopin

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I have this movement that I wanted to service. Everything is functional and I didn't check before if this problem existed. Picture was taken during disassembly.

Basically the watch winds (it's a manual wind) but when I rotate the crown the other way (when you're supposed to hear a clicking sound and the winding pinion "skips" from the clutch teeth) it doesn't do that. It does it once or twice but with quite a lot of force necessary. Is it possible that I didn't lubricate something properly ? Nothing is damaged and as I said, everything seems fine.

Alternatively, if someone could point out the correct points where I'm supposed to lubricate please be my guest.

IMG_6670.jpg

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45 minutes ago, Chopin said:

I have this movement that I wanted to service. Everything is functional and I didn't check before if this problem existed. Picture was taken during disassembly.

Basically the watch winds (it's a manual wind) but when I rotate the crown the other way (when you're supposed to hear a clicking sound and the winding pinion "skips" from the clutch teeth) it doesn't do that. It does it once or twice but with quite a lot of force necessary. Is it possible that I didn't lubricate something properly ? Nothing is damaged and as I said, everything seems fine.

Alternatively, if someone could point out the correct points where I'm supposed to lubricate please be my guest.

IMG_6670.jpg

What is the movement & calibre. Lubrication is all of the touching metal to metal parts. Moebius 9501 or some use D5

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That is how I lubricated it, for the most part, but maybe I did it wrong. Longines 12.68ZS.

I'm thinking that the set lever (C shaped spring thing...) might require some attention. I don't remember lubricating the area between it and the 2 plates (top and bottom) but if I remember correctly it doesn't even touch those 2 parts... It doesn't feel stiff either...

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I had the same trouble recently on a a couple American pocket watches. Turned out for me to be the type of lube. I ended up using a standard sewing machine grade oil (I don't have any D5), just a drop on an oiler of course and worked like a charm. I also thoroughly cleaned the ratchet teeth of any old oil/grease, and lightly oiled the shoulder of the square stem. 

Edited by khunter
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9 hours ago, khunter said:

I had the same trouble recently on a a couple American pocket watches. Turned out for me to be the type of lube. I ended up using a standard sewing machine grade oil (I don't have any D5), just a drop on an oiler of course and worked like a charm. I also thoroughly cleaned the ratchet teeth of any old oil/grease, and lightly oiled the shoulder of the square stem. 

Using the oils that are not dedicated for horology can be problematic. Watch/Clock oils are designed to stay where they are applied but most oils are not designed this way. I just stick to what I know works.

 

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10 hours ago, clockboy said:

Using the oils that are not dedicated for horology can be problematic. Watch/Clock oils are designed to stay where they are applied but most oils are not designed this way. I just stick to what I know works.

 

I totally agree, but I didn't have the "proper" oil and was looking for an at-hand solution, and that's what I found. Basically my answer is using the proper lubrication, whatever that may be.....

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Check the stem, case tube and where the stem enters the movement.

Remove the crown wheel and see if that helps narrow down the potential culprits.

Finally remove set lever and its bridge and see if the clutch moves smoothly up and down the stem.

other possibilities

On some handwinds the train bridge has a shorter screw to clear the set-lever and associated parts on the dial-side, It looks ok on yours but something to check.

If the tip is broken off the stem then the clutch wheel will not be level and this could cause problems.

Anilv.

 

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Well I've tried and checked everything and I can't figure it out.

The problem seems to be the C shaped spring that's supposed to slightly bend and let the clutch slip and make the click sound.

Question: do you lubricate the teeth of the clutch/winding pinion ?

Edited by Chopin
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One more thing. When I take the off the top plate that covers all the other parts (the detent spring or whatever it's called) it seems to work accordingly but then, the setting lever usually "jumps" out of the slot of the clutch.

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3 hours ago, Chopin said:

Well I've tried and checked everything and I can't figure it out.

The problem seems to be the C shaped spring that's supposed to slightly bend and let the clutch slip and make the click sound.

Question: do you lubricate the teeth of the clutch/winding pinion ?

Did you lubricate the pivot point of the spring? The spring should be free to move. And yes, you would lubricate the teeth of the clutch and winding gears (not the setting teeth though)

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Try removing ALL the lubrication from the gear teeth, does the problem get better or worse. I literally had one that with lube would not turn backwards, but after cleaning the teeth thoroughly it actually worked better. Also I would inspect the teeth under high magnification and see if any are abnormally worn or damaged. It's frustrating I know....

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Well I cleaned away all the lubricant and managed to clean the winding pinion and clutch a bit better (turns out there was still some debris around) and it seemed to work but after I put the watch together (dial, hands, mounted in the case) it kind of seems to have the same issue. Damn this cursed watch! :lol:

It's better though, so thanks guys!

Edited by Chopin
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