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Might Have Bitten Off More Than I Can Chew!?


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So.. I have this replica rolex that I ordered just to see if its any good and it quit the first day I wore it.  I came from China.  It looks great but that doesn't really matter if it doesn't work so I have decided that this will be my first project as a watch repair amateur.  

 

The problem:  Won't run at all.  All gears seem to be free that I can see from minor disassembly.  It winds but not run.  Feels fully wound.  I can adjust the date manually.  

 

It is marked as a 2836-2 but a search of ETA website showed that as a Day/Date and this is just a Date.  (replica of 41mm date just)  It seems to be more of a 2826-2

 

I am attaching pictures of where I am now in disassembly and hoping that some of you may have advice as to what I actually have and what to do from this point.  I have only removed the rotor, stem, hands and dial at this point and am unsure where to go from here.  Thanks in advance for any help and or advice.  

 

P.S.  I know that "don't buy a replica" is the first advice so we can skip that! :)

 

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Hi,

     Regarding the balance hairspring,  the balance cock is covering most of it.  If I were trying to fault find this watch I would check for power at the lever,  it should flip smartly from side to side if moved gently with something like a tooth pick, provided power is reaching it.  To get at the lever you will need to remove the balance cock together with the balance wheel, this is a very delicate operation with the potential to damage the hairspring, balance wheel or balance wheel pivots. Do not attempt it unless you feel confidant of success.  If you have some junk watches lying around practice on those first or buy some cheap mechanical watches from Ebay to practice on.  If on checking the lever you find it does not move smartly between the banking pins then this would (to me ) indicate a blockage in the train. The only way to clear this would be by further dismantling so that you can check the train is moving freely. Do not remove the lever until you have released all the power from the mainspring,  assuming it is wound up.  Looking at your pictures the movement looks reasonable quality and certainly good enough for a daily wearer.  Hope this helps you.

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If you shake it side to side does the balance swing freely? If so then autowinds advice is sound. But before removing the auto works will have to come off - this will be secured by two black screws. When lifing the auto work put a little pressure on the winder by turning it slightly then prise carefully using a screwdriver. Then taking out the balance is safer. Proceed then as per autowinds advice to see if the pallets are free. 

 

If the balance does not swing freely then it could be the balance tack. This is a small lever which moves out to touch the balance wheel (stopping it) when you pull the crown to the hand setting position.

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  • 1 month later...

Ok.... Finally getting back to this while waiting on my lost spring for my watch school project. Advise taken and results thus far are...

Balance moves when shaken side to side

Removed auto works from above

There seems to be no power in the spring so I can see the fork moving but it won't advance the escape wheel (balance still in)

Light pressure on the barrel and or center wheel seems that they are stuck (this is why I didn't continue in removing the balance)

Also when I insert the stem I can only get it to go to the date set position. Am I doing something wrong or are the symptoms all the same problem? Something in the keyless works?

Asking now for further advise from you pros! Should I move on to diss assymbly of the wheel train and leave the balance in place or continue with the original plan? Or does this help you guys diagnose somthing else. I would start removing the date wheel but I'm not that far in my classes and would need more guidance to get that done to get down to the keyless works.

Thanks in advance!

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Just my 2 cents worth but I would not remove any more of the dial side for now.  In any fault finding work it is very easy to jump to the wrong conclusions, best to go by facts rather than guess's at what it might be.  For the watch to run power must reach the lever,  any blockage in the train will cause it to stop or stop and start.  With the balance and lever removed it will be possible to see if the train runs freely.  Before removing the lever all mainspring power must be slowly released,  never remove the lever from a wound up watch,  it's possible to burn the pivots off the wheels and you do not want that.  Check any other advice before your next move.

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I am sure the problem is related to the balance stop.

 

This is pivoted on action from the sliding pinion. It sits under the barrel bridge. Now you mention the watch is stuck in hand setting - so the sliding pinion has pushed the stop against the balance wheel.

 

There are two ways to resolve this. The first is to take the calendar off and remove the keyless work and re-assemble.

 

But there is a quicker and easier way. And that is to take the auto off (the two black screws) and then remove the ratchet wheel, then the barrel bridge. This will expose the balance stop spring and you will see what I mean.

 

I have an idea - I am assembling one of these movements today - I will take some pictures to help you ;)

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Ok.  I have removed the auto and the ratchet wheel and the wheel screwed to the barrel (forgot its name).  I also removed the stem clutch and what looked to be a clutch spring.  It was in the notch of the clutch.  Where to go from here?  Wheel train still doesn't seem free or maybe there just isn't any power to move it.  I am only testing by putting a small amount of pressure on the center wheel.

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Hi Drummer,

 

With the pallet fork still installed you won't get free movement of the wheel train since part of the function of the pallet fork is to control the wheel train by locking and unlocking the escape wheel.

In your pic it looks like you have got the barrel bridge off so I guess the main spring must be let down. If so then it would be safe to remove the balance and the pallet fork. Then you can check the free running of the wheel train. If you haven't already done so then I would suggest watching a video or two on YouTube of watch disassembly to get an idea of how to handle the balance/balance cock assembly when removing or reinstalling it. The hair spring and balance wheel pivots are easily damaged so care must be taken.

Once these are out of the movement then light pressure on the centre wheel with a piece of peg wood should see the wheel train running free if all is well. If not then look closely at the wheel train between the main plate and the train bridge to make sure that there is nothing causing an obvious obstruction, and also check that there is nothing obstructing the motion works on the other side of the main plate before you disassemble the going train.

Once you have got the going train running freely you can then reinstall the pallet and check that it locks and unlocks the escape wheel properly before reinstalling the balance assembly. 

When you come to reinstall the balance assembly, you need to make sure that the pallet fork is on the correct side to receive the impulse jewel as the balance rotates.

 

Through all this remember to take plenty of pics to show you where things go back together, and don't lose patience with it.

 

Good luck :-)

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OK - I have put together a video which will help you understand how this thing comes apart and goes back together.

 

It's an ETA 2824 of which your movement is based on. The video is uploading right now but will take a few hours because my connection is quite slow (roll on fibre)

 

 

I hope it helps you.

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Excellent video Mark.

 

What are your thoughts on whether or not to lubricate the reversing wheel pawls. I notice that you didn't on this movement (did the reversing wheels go into the cleaner?), and I believe that ETA says that you should neither clean nor lubricate them, but this looks to be a fairly recent example and maybe the factory applied treatment is still intact. On some of the older ETA's that I have played with where the pawls have become sticky resulting in "helicoptering" of the rotor when hand winding, I have quite successfully cured the problem by cleaning the wheels and then very lightly lubricating the pawls, and they have continued to work well for the duration of normal service intervals; ETA would I think rather I replaced the sticky wheel with new ones. Am I guilty of bad practice? :-)

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Excellent video Mark.

 

What are your thoughts on whether or not to lubricate the reversing wheel pawls. I notice that you didn't on this movement (did the reversing wheels go into the cleaner?), and I believe that ETA says that you should neither clean nor lubricate them, but this looks to be a fairly recent example and maybe the factory applied treatment is still intact. On some of the older ETA's that I have played with where the pawls have become sticky resulting in "helicoptering" of the rotor when hand winding, I have quite successfully cured the problem by cleaning the wheels and then very lightly lubricating the pawls, and they have continued to work well for the duration of normal service intervals; ETA would I think rather I replaced the sticky wheel with new ones. Am I guilty of bad practice? :-)

 

Thanks Marc, no these reversing wheels are not to go in the cleaner. I just clean the pivots with de-greaser and rodico them. But if they are not functioning well after that I replace them.

 

If you clean the wheels then fair play if they still function well, but lubricating them may be a problem as the oil can cause the parts to stick out of place (happened to me before). Maybe (just thinking) pallet oil will be good as it is very light.

 

What a great upload, Mark - clear as a bell!

 

 

Thank you Will :)

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Always the best thing to do in this situation is strip the movement down to the bear essentials ie

 

Remove the Autowind bridge.

Remove all the date related gears and date wheel.

 

You want to be left with the keyless works, drive train, main spring and balance wheel.

 

Remember on these movements that there is a hacking lever which rests against the balance wheel when the stem is set to time setting position.

 

Ideally, you want to strip everything out and check each gear to make sure that the pinions have not gone snapped off and that there are no missing teeth!!

 

I have found in the past (on two rep watches in fact) that the escape wheel jewel had sunk in the chassis, causing the escape wheel to rest against the chassis causing the movement to stop.

 

Putting this movement back together is really easy, so I would personally strip is down.

 

One further thought, sometimes (if the watch has had a jolt) the pallet can jump out of the balance wheel jewel peg) So it would be a good idea to check the balance wheel turns and the pallet fork correctly turns the escape wheel.

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Thanks Marc, no these reversing wheels are not to go in the cleaner. I just clean the pivots with de-greaser and rodico them. But if they are not functioning well after that I replace them.

 

If you clean the wheels then fair play if they still function well, but lubricating them may be a problem as the oil can cause the parts to stick out of place (happened to me before). Maybe (just thinking) pallet oil will be good as it is very light.

 

 

 

Thank you Will :)

I seem to have gotten away with it so far but that's almost certainly more due to luck than judgement. :phew:

One technique I have read about for lubricating these reversers but have yet to try (and maybe will do if my current approach does fail) is to dilute 9010 1:10 in naphtha and drop the wheels in that. the idea is that the naphtha evaporates leaving the finest film of 9010 on the wheel. 

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Certainly the reversing wheels can be a problem on these movements :)

If the rotor starts to spin when you manually wind or that manual winding seems very stiff then the auto reverse winding gears are at fault. Sometimes cleaning helps but I have found it easier to just replace them ?

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Thanks Marc, no these reversing wheels are not to go in the cleaner. I just clean the pivots with de-greaser and rodico them. But if they are not functioning well after that I replace them.

 

If you clean the wheels then fair play if they still function well, but lubricating them may be a problem as the oil can cause the parts to stick out of place (happened to me before). Maybe (just thinking) pallet oil will be good as it is very light.

 

 

 

Thank you Will :)

I found this info on a page about lubricants.

Special Purpose Lubricants for the Automatic System

Lubeta V105

Lubeta V105 is a dry, waxy lubricant suspended in a clear, sweet smelling liquid similar to that used as the carrier fluid for the ink in ball point pens. Its name is a concatenation of “lube” and “ETA” as the formula was developed by the movement manufacturer ETA SA. The product was designed to simplify the lubrication of the reversing wheels in ETA calibres while also helping to prevent over lubrication, which can be detrimental to the proper functioning of the automatic system.

Lubeta V105 leaves behind a waxy film to lubricate reversing wheels.

Lubeta V105 is applied by submerging the reversing wheels into the solution for several seconds and then removing them to dry. Excess fluid should be blown off with a hand blower and the parts left to dry underneath a bell cover for 15 minutes. Due to the nature of the carrier fluid that the lubrication is suspended in, contact between a freshly coated part and solvent sensitive materials (such as plastic) should be avoided.

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At least, I see that i'm not the only who have a replica from a Rolex... I have one since 2 years and runs great.. however, the only problem I have is : I can,t remove the back cover .. too tight and I have no Tools for it......When I will have the time, i will post a picture of my Watch that I paid...$1

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  • 3 weeks later...

I have to admit I can't stand fakes! Homages no problem but fakes get my goat as they can be part of criminal activity best place for them is the bin (after you have had a play!) keep the movement but ditch the rest

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