Cleaning Fluids

[jdm]

1 hour ago, Blubarb said:

That's interesting, jdm. So in most cases I can get away with a Turps and Shellite mix as a clean? 

Or even naphta alone.

[Tmuir]

For watch bands I use just shellite, or  shellite and turps if my rinse solution for watch parts is getting old, but use a full cleaning solution for watch parts.

Shellite is just Australia's name for Naptha.

Turps and Shellite will clean, but not as good as L &R cleaning solution, or a clone of it as they contain other chemicals which also deal with rust and other highly active solvents that will shift dried up oil and grease better than Shelite and Turps alone.

But if it the watch only needs a light clean Shelite and Turps will do,

[jdm]

5 hours ago, Tmuir said:

For watch bands I use just shellite, or  shellite and turps if my rinse solution for watch parts is getting old, but use a full cleaning solution for watch parts.

Personally I don't bother with cleaning solutions for case and bracelet and cases. Warm water, dish detergent and brush always worked wonders for me. My (cheap) U/S has broken, but it's not like it made a big difference except I could see the dirt and water turn black in the tank.

[jdm]

Hexane, another practical cleaning fluid

I've got it at the pharmacy (in my country they sell this kind of stuff  for laboratory use). It's a highly refined solvent, in my case Isohexane, CAS No. 601-007-07-7. In summary, it's still close to spark engine fuel and an excellent stain remover.

• Leaves no residue whatsoever, and no rinse is necessary,
• I've used on a watch movement (all parts), without any funky vintage cleaning machine,  no warming, no ultrasonic, just a gentle hand shaking, and rubber blower drying.
• Not expensive per  se, it comes in small bottles.
• Very volatile, must be kept closed all the time.

Judging by the debris left in the container, it cleans very well. 

[dwhite]

It's used in the US for grease/oil analysis.  The sample is extracted with hexane then distilled.  You're right about it being volatile, I know of some serious lab explosions and fires due to it's use.

[khunter]

Ok, this topic has probably been covered over and over, but I just got the biggest kick out of reading some of the MSDS (material safety data sheet) on popular watch cleaning solutions. One brand, I'm not going to mention names, has a cleaner advertised as "specially formulated" etc etc etc, then you look up the ingredients on the sheet and it's a fancy chemical name for Naptha, regular old naptha, and perfume (basically)...that's it...that's their "special" formula.

There's another that a lot of people are probably familiar with, which contains mineral spirits, naptha, olive oil, ammonia and a little alcohol......period.....the "formula" leaves a little wiggle room for exact amounts of each ingredient, but basically it's 65% spirits, 20% naptha, 10% olive oil (ok, oleic acid, but essentially the same thing), and <5% ammonia/alcohol......and as we all know, none of these "special formulas" sell on the cheap, they're in the range of $50/gallon!

I'm currently using the above formula (minus the ammonia) in my cleaner and I get excellent results, and it cost me about $15

I guess I'm just kind of venting, and I'm not knocking the companies for making good products. It just seems a "bit" excessive price-wise for basically over the counter ingredients. 

Oh, and hair-spring cleaners? Carbon tet, (carbon tetrochloride) otherwise known as engine degreaser! Even some brake cleaning fluids are carbon tet, so save some bucks and go to NAPA! (just kidding......or am I?)  

[dadistic]

I agree with you, I figured out what was in the various versions of One Dip, and saved a bunch of money buying a bottle of Trichloroethylene. Nasty stuff. Over the pond it's just plain ol' perc. (dry cleaning fluid).

[measuretwice]

A good way to test home brews is with a microscope slide - dip half and let dry and see what sort of residue you get.  That imo is what you're paying for as well as cleaning ability - no residue

I agree that the pricing is nuts, but there's also a little more in it than the ingredients mentioned if you're referring to the L&R (why not name names?).  These can be bought from chemical supply, but its more time and bother that eats into the savings.  Also, they may be getting purer stuff - consumer mineral spirits for example has for example wax that will leave a film if you don't remove it.

Maybe you're a better brewer than I, but after I few attempts I gave up as they did not get things as clean and the proper L&R wash followed by the two rinses. 

If you do nail it  - same cleaning power and no residue - please post the formula!

Edited February 2, 2018 by measuretwice

[khunter]

11 hours ago, measuretwice said:

A good way to test home brews is with a microscope slide - dip half and let dry and see what sort of residue you get.  That imo is what you're paying for as well as cleaning ability - no residue

I agree that the pricing is nuts, but there's also a little more in it than the ingredients mentioned if you're referring to the L&R (why not name names?).  These can be bought from chemical supply, but its more time and bother that eats into the savings.  Also, they may be getting purer stuff - consumer mineral spirits for example has for example wax that will leave a film if you don't remove it.

Maybe you're a better brewer than I, but after I few attempts I gave up as they did not get things as clean and the proper L&R wash followed by the two rinses. 

If you do nail it  - same cleaning power and no residue - please post the formula!

I followed other advice on a different forum about the wax issue, basically you freeze the mineral spirits (the one ingredient prone to wax content) and skim off the residue. I froze mine for 2 days, no wax formed. I use straight naptha for the second rinse and straight denatured alcohol for the final rinse, and have had no residue problems. I spin dry after each cycle then follow up with a blower in the crevices. I still have to peg out the jewels now and then but it's minor. I also do not run the balance or pallets through any of these, I do those by hand while the main parts are in the cleaner.

[khunter]

One last note, mineral spirits don't actually freeze, and I use the odorless type.

[measuretwice]

I did the same, still was not able to get the same results I do from the commercial cleaner/rinse.     I also hate feeling like I'm paying too much, but for me anyway I just didn't work as well.  I thought about going to next level, all the right ingredients from chemical supply, but with 8 lifetimes of projects on the go, well, I never got there

[Tmuir]

At my watch school we make our own cleaning fluids based on the commercial ones.

To be fair Oleic acid is not the same as olive oil, yes olive oil is around %80 oleic acid but calling it olive oil is like calling crude oil petrol.

Yes the commercial fluids are way over priced, we make it for around $10 to $12 a litre compared to $30 a litre it sells for in Australia, but finding places that will sell you  monoethanolamine and Propoxyethanol isn't easy, we could not find suppliers for both of them in Australia and had to import them.

[khunter]

1 hour ago, Tmuir said:

At my watch school we make our own cleaning fluids based on the commercial ones.

To be fair Oleic acid is not the same as olive oil, yes olive oil is around %80 oleic acid but calling it olive oil is like calling crude oil petrol.

Yes the commercial fluids are way over priced, we make it for around $10 to $12 a litre compared to $30 a litre it sells for in Australia, but finding places that will sell you  monoethanolamine and Propoxyethanol isn't easy, we could not find suppliers for both of them in Australia and had to import them.

As I said, I'm not necessarily condemning the big name cleaning companies/solutions, they have every right to sell whatever they like. If I were running a commercial business cleaning movements all day long I would use the commercial fluids as well, but as a hobbyist I believe acceptable results can be obtained by trying other methods which are not nearly as expensive.

I'm a tried and true tinkerer, so experimenting with my own solutions, coming up with different ideas on how to achieve a result is just part of my nature. I'm not advocating a boycott of commercial products, just thinking out loud about different options.

[jdm]

2 hours ago, Tmuir said:

At my watch school we make our own cleaning fluids based on the commercial ones.

Could you tell the exact components and percentage?

[Tmuir]

For hobbyists, Shellite (naptha) and pegwood sharpened to a point will do for sure.

As you say it all comes down to time and money.

If you have a lot of time save money, if you don't spend some money to make some time.

[Tmuir]

3 minutes ago, jdm said:

Could you tell the exact components and percentage?

I don't make it so I don't have the exact percentages, but a good starting point is reading the MSDS for your favorite cleaner, they give the chemicals but only approximates of the percentages.

Here is a good place to look.

http://lrultrasonics.com/msds/index.html

[khunter]

I was just reading some more on the monoethanolamine, and one use of a derivative is hemorrhoid treatment!!! Now THAT'S funny right there!!!!  

[Tmuir]

Well isn't that what cleaning watches is all about, getting rid of unwanted bumps and S**T.

[khunter]

11 minutes ago, jdm said:

Could you tell the exact components and percentage?

This is what I use with good results, your mileage may vary:

60% Odorless Mineral Spirits (by volume)

35% Xylol or sometimes called xylene, not quite as explosive as naptha, and has better reaction with spirits (from another website quoting a chemist)

5% virgin olive oil (used as a corrosion inhibitor)

Second rinse is straight VM&P Naptha

Final rinse is straight denatured alcohol

15 minute cycles for the first 2, 10 minutes on the last

 

I'm considering replacing rinse #2 with the same formula as #1, as naptha is very volatile, and I know #1 works, the coloration of the fluid (turning darker) means it's working , you can see the grunge from the movements settling at the bottom of the jar.

Edited February 2, 2018 by khunter
additional information

[Tmuir]

I use 20% turps and 80% Shellite (Naptha) for my first rinse and %100 Shellite for my final rinse.

I use this in jars in a water bath in my US, but I keep a close eye on the water temp. If it gets close to 40C I tip it out and put fresh water in it. I don't like the Shellite (Naptha) getting too hot, and I do this in my workshop, not my house.

I stay away from Isopropanol (dentured alcohol) as it can dissolve shelac and its hygroscopic.

 

You should be able to find Oleic acid at a local chemical supplier, but you may want to team up with other people as they probably will only want to sell it in bulk rather than olive oil.

 

As a side note Oleic acid is also used for cleaning clocks with water based solutions.

[khunter]

Yes I don't run the balance or pallets through the cleaner, I do those by hand while the other parts are stirring around.

Honestly the naptha scares me a little, it's very volatile, thus why I'm thinking about replacing it all together with another round of #1.

The other forum where I read about the xylene (xylol) and olive oil, I can't remember where I found it but I believe it was UK based, was talking about the reason for the inclusion of oleic acid. One contributor, a chemist, speculated (obviously because he didn't actually work for L&R) that it's main contributions would be some level of breakdown of organic material (such as oils from your hands/fingers) and as an anti-oxidant. At the levels of inclusion, <5% as per the MSDS, he surmised olive oil as a reasonable substitute. Again, this wasn't meant as a CSI investigation as to exact contents, just as a suitable DIY home brew. Personally I'd rather spend $15 on a consumable rather than $50, and take the extra $35 and buy another tool that I'll have for the next 20 years....  

[LucaMorelli]

Hello, I am posting because I have recently purchased an ultrasonic cleaning machine as an alternative to cleaning by hand. I am a little bit confused, however, about the liquids and what solutions, or how I should go about using the machine to its potential. 

I am new to the ultrasonic scene, so I am not aware of common practices or were to buy specific resources that are recommended. If you can, please leave some links to help guide me, I am looking for the sites to purchase them from, and information on how to complete the process correctly. 

 

Thanks,

Luca 

 

 

 

[hir3na5hra]

Hello, I am posting because I have recently purchased an ultrasonic cleaning machine as an alternative to cleaning by hand. I am a little bit confused, however, about the liquids and what solutions, or how I should go about using the machine to its potential. 
I am new to the ultrasonic scene, so I am not aware of common practices or were to buy specific resources that are recommended. If you can, please leave some links to help guide me, I am looking for the sites to purchase them from, and information on how to complete the process correctly. 
 
Thanks,
Luca 
 
 
 

Hi.

I use this stuff and it's fantastic! After introducing it to my colleague, they are now using it too!

https://www.coleparmer.co.uk/i/cole-parmer-micro-90-cleaning-solution-1-liter-bottle/1810005

I've used cleaning agents like Flash diluted in water but not as good as the stuff above.

Enjoy the world of sonics [emoji16]

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[LucaMorelli]

hir3na5hra

That solution looks great! How would I go about using it? So like just running the parts in that, or doing something else then that? 

Thanks for the help

[hir3na5hra]

hir3na5hra

That solution looks great! How would I go about using it? So like just running the parts in that, or doing something else then that? 
Thanks for the help

I will take it you will have a relatively small tank (3-5 litre) so you will need only a very small amount. I use only a capful and that small bottle lasts for ages.

So yes clean tap water and throw in a capful. Run the Sonics to stir it all up. If your tank has a heater, wait for it to get hot before cleaning your pieces.

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