Hands rotate one way but not the other

[Eckehardt]

Quick question. What brand of watch is this movement out of. Is it a TAG?

[Eckehardt]

4 hours ago, Chopin said:

I just can't seem to figure out why there's a small play of around 0,1-0,2mm on that part which slightly draws the gear away from the clutch and makes these 2 parts not engage and therefore not drive the wheels.

I don't see any damage. It's true that the movement wasn't freshly lubricated but I didn't see any dried out residue or lubricant either.

Going to re-lubricate it by the book and see if I can solve the mystery.

PS: I've serviced movements before just that most have been mechanical. It wasn't hard at all especially since I had marl's videos on youtube as guide as well.

When reassembling check and see if the pivot holes have too much side to side slop in them. This may require re-tooling service.

[Eckehardt]

12 minutes ago, Eckehardt said:

When reassembling check and see if the pivot holes have too much side to side slop in them. This may require re-tooling service.

Too much play in the keyless work pivots and sliding mechanisms can cause clearance issues especially if the mainplate is brass. 

[Chopin]

It's not a Tag, Zodiac.

I have a loupe but I wish I had a microscope. Would have been better. I'll check today and this time I'll do the proper lubrication but I'm not sure if lubrication was the issue.

I don't think the holes are the problem. The small pinion that holds that little gear simply moves just very slightly away from the clutch when it's being rotated (usually only when you rotate the hands clockwise) and the 2 gears will not engage.

Edited January 24, 2018 by Chopin

[rodabod]

You may need a spare 955 movement as a reference to compare for wear. 

The reason I suggested swapping the entire movement is that for me it’s cheaper than servicing (they cost something like £25) and it gives a better result than servicing in my opinion as there is no wear on the new movement. The parts on these watches are very fragile, and the springs become deformed as already mentioned. You can adjust those, but they will work-harden and not be as good as original. 

For obsolete quartz movements like the ETA 536, I always service them. 

[rodabod]

Oh, if you are in Europe then I could possibly look through my spares and send you a 955 with working keyless works. Always good to have spares for them if you are working on watches regularly. 

[MrRoundel]

As I serviced my nephew's Wittnauer automatic last month, it came time to reinstall that setting-wheel (little gear?). One side was nicely beveled, the other was relatively flat. I didn't notice that when I took the watch apart. Having a 50/50 chance to get it right, I placed it in position beveled (pretty) side up. Then, as I read through a book by Jendritzki (?) I believe, I discovered that the pretty side should have gone down towards the winding pinion. Like I said, 50/50 chance.

I'm just wondering whether or not your setting wheel has the "pretty" side up when it should be down, and whether that would cause an issue such as yours? Then again, I figured you've probably tried it both ways if you had any question. I was just a newbie who didn't know that the beveled/chamfered/pretty side faced down. I probably should have known, but it just seemed like such a waste of the "pretty" side.  Alive and learned. Good luck. Cheers.

[vwatchrepair]

What is the condition of the teeth on the clutch wheel/sliding pinion? These teeth can get worn and cause slippage. Also, if the Canon Pinion is too tight for whatever reason this will exaggerate the effects of worn sliding pinion teeth as well.

 

From a business standpoint it makes more sense to swap in a new movement. Or at the very least swap all keyless works from a known good movement if you have one laying around. I have tons of spare movement parts just sitting in my shop.

 

Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk

 

 

 

 

[Chopin]

Sorry about the delay everyone. @rodabod @vwatchrepair @MrRoundel

So I've given it another try by properly lubricating all the parts according to the manual and the problem is still there.

The setting wheel looks the same on both sides so it's not one of those beveled/chamered ones.

As some of you have suggested I wonder if my setting wheel might be worn just a bit... Or maybe it's the clutch. I don't have a microscope sadly but I have taken these pics which might give you a clue...

Rodabod I'm in Romania. I might take you up on it and pay for postage and everything if I manage to find out what the problem is. I'd probably need just one or two parts so can also send it back since you might need it in the future.

[rodabod]

If I can manage to get it in an envelope and keep it under 5mm thick, then I can send to Romania for £1.20. Just PM me if you want one. 

[Eckehardt]

On 23/01/2018 at 7:57 PM, Eckehardt said:

Have you checked the stem itself sometimes it doesn't enguage properly. A loupe for these components is a good idea. Viewing with the naked eye one can't tell whether there are small burrs or slight rounded teeth on the gears. Or difference in teeth depth. Also these components need to be thouroughly cleaned. Also the slightest bit of slop in the yoke and levers can effect enguagement.

Edited February 4, 2018 by Eckehardt

[rodabod]

@Chopin, did you ever figure out what your fault was with the original movement?

I have come across a similar fault with the quick-set date: sometimes the sliding pinion slips out of engagement. So I "tightened" the yoke spring (bent it sideways) to increase the tension on the yoke, but it still occasionally slips out of position. I suspct it may actually be due to a worn slot in the setting lever where the stud on the corrector lever enters.....

[Chopin]

2 hours ago, rodabod said:

@Chopin, did you ever figure out what your fault was with the original movement?

I have come across a similar fault with the quick-set date: sometimes the sliding pinion slips out of engagement. So I "tightened" the yoke spring (bent it sideways) to increase the tension on the yoke, but it still occasionally slips out of position. I suspct it may actually be due to a worn slot in the setting lever where the stud on the corrector lever enters.....

Yes it was some damaged parts. One or two wheels that were supposed to engage had their teeth a little worn out.

I tried a similar approach where I thought that the little top plate that covers the keyless works (and also has a hole which holds one wheel into place) might be faulty so I tried bending it downwards (my wheels would simply slip from their intended slot) or just tightening the screw but it didn't work.

Someone kindly donated a donor movement and I was able to simply replace 2 parts I believe and then it worked...

Can you post a few pics for us ?

Edited May 10, 2018 by Chopin

[rodabod]

It was myself who sent you the spare 955!

I’ve attached a photo of the keyless works with the corrector lever circled in red. The stud  inside the slot does not snap “positively” into the three different positions. It always feels like it has a bit of play  

[rodabod]

Oh, technically that movement is an earlier 555, but they are very similar. 

[Chopin]

Ah crap, I mistaken you for a different member. Did you change your avatar ? Sorry!

My problem was in a different area slightly. Do you see any damage or worn out parts ?

I think the play might be the culprit as some of the parts on my movement also had a bit of play which should not have been there but as I changed the components it worked fine.

I guess it's just the way these movements (which are on the cheap side) are made. Not as tough as mechanical ones.

If you want to I can send you the movement that you gave me as I didn't use any of the circled parts.

The part with the protruding stud (that goes inside the slot with 3 positions) had a bit of play on my movement as well and I thought that that's it but apparently it wasn't. If it helps...

Edited May 10, 2018 by Chopin

[rodabod]

Thanks Chopin. I have many of these movements, so no need in sending any spares. I’m just surprised that they wear over time. It’s not that often that the time and date are set. 

[Chopin]

Well, yes, but they are very fragile compared to mechanical movements or high-grade quartz movements such as those made by Cartier, Rolex, Grand Seiko, etc.

Maybe you've had experience with the Rondas... Oh boy I hate those... Luckily they're not expensive...