My First Staking Set Advice

[RichardHarris123]

4 minutes ago, tomh207 said:

The reference that might be worth looking at is not dreadnought but GEM. I think I have seen some references to them and I think maybe Japanese? The box style definitely looks Japanese sets that I have seen, like MKS. 
 

Tom

It's listed as coming Japan, is it good quality.  As said not buying just interested. 

[LittleWatchShop]

6 minutes ago, tomh207 said:

maybe Japanese

 

[tomh207]

16 minutes ago, RichardHarris123 said:

It's listed as coming Japan, is it good quality.  As said not buying just interested. 

I have not handled any of them but Japan does have a good reputation for quality. I think one of our members here got a MKS set @luiazazrambomaybe you have some input?

 

Tom

[LittleWatchShop]

1 hour ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

The only reference of dreadnought i know of is of the big pocket watch that Record manufacturered. Maybe something under the Record watch company. 

...and it is a style of guitar, and it was a ship in the Royal Navy,  and it is the type of the Battleship Texas and other ships (Battleship Texas is the only remaining dreadnought remaining and is being restored).

[Neverenoughwatches]

2 hours ago, LittleWatchShop said:

...and it is a style of guitar, and it was a ship in the Royal Navy,  and it is the type of the Battleship Texas and other ships (Battleship Texas is the only remaining dreadnought remaining and is being restored).

also a past British submarine and future class of submarines. I was meaning more in reference to watches though. Have just had a look at look at some information, There was a watch company called Dreadnought. They and other companies did join the Record watch company. 

3 hours ago, tomh207 said:

The reference that might be worth looking at is not dreadnought but GEM. I think I have seen some references to them and I think maybe Japanese? The box style definitely looks Japanese sets that I have seen, like MKS. 
 

Tom

I've also seen very similar curved perspex fronted cases by the Japanese company MKS. Their qear isn't bad, in my collection is a big movement/case holder and a hand broaching tool. Both are reasonable quality .

[Marc]

I have an MKS (Meikosha Manufacturing Co. Ltd.) set which does indeed have a curved glass (not perspex) lid very similar to the set pictured, I believe that Mark Lovick also has one.

Mine is not an inverto style like this one though so it's difficult to make a direct comparison.

If it is from MKS under a different name then the quality is excellent. The stakes are all the standard 4.7mm diameter too so compatible with the majority of other sets that you're likely to come across.

[Birbdad]

So, got the thing derusted and all put back together, thoroughly coated everything with breakfree which should keep it lubricated and inhibit rust for some time and i'm happy to say i have a perfectly working staking set!  People were very correct that yes, the evaporust on the top plate absolutely destroyed any semblance of a finish. I could pretty it up but eh, it's a tool. It's probably a century old and everything else looks great. Next i'll do the same treatment to the punches and start taking inventory. Very happy. I cannot wait to mess with it 

[Birbdad]

So today i went to clean my stakes. Dipped them in evaporust for half a day, it got all the rust off and they looked fine if not pretty. LIke with other metal things i dont' want to rust i put them in the oven to dry them super quick so rust couldn't form and they came out COVERED in rust in just 15 minutes. 

I would rather not mess with sandpaper as it would be so time consuming and i dont' want to reduce their diameter by even a little bit. ANy tips for how to dry them without rust forming so i can then cover them in some rust inhibiting oil?

Edited April 9, 2023 by Birbdad

[RichardHarris123]

Only guessing here but what fuel does your oven use.  If gas it produces a lot of water valour. Chemical reactions depend on temperature amongst other things, roughly for every 10C increase the reaction rate doubles.

[LittleWatchShop]

1 minute ago, Birbdad said:

So today i went to clean my stakes. Dipped them in evaporust for half a day, it got all the rust off and they looked fine if not pretty. LIke with other metal things i dont' want to rust i put them in the oven to dry them super quick so rust couldn't form and they came out COVERED in rust in just 15 minutes. 

I would rather not mess with sandpaper as it would be so time consuming and i dont' want to reduce their diameter by even a little bit. ANy tips for how to dry them without rust forming so i can then cover them in some rust inhibiting oil?

I have cleaned many by chucking them in a drill motor and spinning while gripping wit 1000 grit sand paper.

[Waggy]

I would wipe them down with a rag soaked in WD40, this will remove most of the rust and also provide a barrier to prevent the formation of new rust at the same time. WD40 should work as I assume the evaporust will have removed most of the old deeper rust and what formed after you used this is just a thin skin of surface rust. Worth a try.

Edited April 9, 2023 by Waggy
Fixed typo

[Birbdad]

1 minute ago, RichardHarris123 said:

Only guessing here but what fuel does your oven use.  If gas it produces a lot of water valour. Chemical reactions depend on temperature amongst other things, roughly for every 10C increase the reaction rate doubles.

It's an electric stove. I dry watch parts with a hairdryer to keep moving hot air going over them and iv'e never had rust....maybe i should try that. 
Also they were touching each other, seems like those contact points got the most rust.

2 minutes ago, LittleWatchShop said:

I have cleaned many by chucking them in a drill motor and spinning while gripping wit 1000 grit sand paper.

I'm hoping to avoid this. I Just don't want to reduce their width at all and tha twould be insanely time consuming with 80+ punches

 

1 minute ago, Waggy said:

I would wipe them down with a rag soaked in WD40, this will remove most of the rust and also provide a barrier to prevent the formation of new rust at the same time. WD40 should work as I assume the evaporust will have removed most of the old deeper rust and what formed after you used this is just a this skin of surface rust. Worth a try.

I'm using break free which is a good light oil and rust inhibator. That got most of the surface rust off but amazingly not all of it, Still some visible rust. I put them back in the evaporust for now.

I feel like there's gotta be an easy way to dry them  all without introducing new rust....You ahve to rinse of evaporust with water which of course runs the risk of just introducing new rust.

[RichardHarris123]

Couldn't you just wipe with kitchen roll and oil straight away? 

[Birbdad]

3 minutes ago, RichardHarris123 said:

Couldn't you just wipe with kitchen roll and oil straight away? 

Would that get it dry enough? I thought for really high carbon steel it's gotta be moisture free basically. I could try i suppose

[tomh207]

When they come out of the post evaporust water try dumping them in a tub of 90+% IPA. This should disperse the water and when you take them out the IPA will evaporate quickly.

 

Tom

[Birbdad]

2 minutes ago, tomh207 said:

When they come out of the post evaporust water try dumping them in a tub of 90+% IPA. This should disperse the water and when you take them out the IPA will evaporate quickly.

 

Tom

hmm, the drug store sells 91% I could go pick some up if that's high enough. Good idea tho.

 

[RichardHarris123]

Have you got WD40? It should displace the water, the clue's in the name.  Hehe. 

[Birbdad]

10 minutes ago, RichardHarris123 said:

Have you got WD40? It should displace the water, the clue's in the name.  Hehe. 

 I got some of their penetrating oil. Says it's a rust inhibitor. 

It literally didn't occur to me what wd means till you mentioned it haha.

[GuyMontag]

2 hours ago, tomh207 said:

When they come out of the post evaporust water try dumping them in a tub of 90+% IPA. This should disperse the water and when you take them out the IPA will evaporate quickly.

 

Tom

That's what I did with mine. Then wiped with Barricade wipes and for good measure I put a Bullfrog rust prevention strip on the inside of the case.

[Birbdad]

It is insane how fast these damn things rust. I pulled them out of the water to quickly dry them one by one and then oil them. By the time i got to the last 10 to oil they were already rusting up and had to go back into the evaporust which did a great job but still. I now got them inventoried, wd40'd and derusted finally. 

So this is what i got. THe only thing not listed in this documentation is the balance staff pullers of which i got 3 sizes and a weird disc which i assume i will figure out how to use at some point. 



I would like to flesh out this set but i'm just wondering if theres a lot of these i just would never need and if there's some missing stuff i will absolutely need. It appears this is a complete set (minus one that broke) of one of marshall's smaller sets that wasn't totally complete. Wonder what people's thoughts are on the usefulness of what i got here?

Also i will scan the original documentation that came with this and post it here this week.

Edited April 10, 2023 by Birbdad

[oldhippy]

Why don't you use some anti rust paper? Just put it in the staking set. Why on earth did you put parts in an oven God only knows. You should have washed them out in petrol and dried them in fine sawdust,  blow all the sawdust away with a blower in the holes and brushed them of with a bench brush, then wiped them over in a clean oily  rag.  The rust remover you used I have never heard of it. The best way is to use a fine enemy stick or cloth in a lathe, removing rust and dirt this way will not alter the diameter of the punches, they will still fit well in the staking tool. 

[Birbdad]

49 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

Why don't you use some anti rust paper? Just put it in the staking set. Why on earth did you put parts in an oven God only knows. You should have washed them out in petrol and dried them in fine sawdust,  blow all the sawdust away with a blower in the holes and brushed them of with a bench brush, then wiped them over in a clean oily  rag.  The rust remover you used I have never heard of it. The best way is to use a fine enemy stick or cloth in a lathe, removing rust and dirt this way will not alter the diameter of the punches, they will still fit well in the staking tool. 

I do it for the same reason so many people dry watch parts and things that rust with extended moisture contact with a bit of heat. Usually if they're bone dry in a few minutes there's no time for rust to even form. I've never had rust collect on anything using this method till now. 
It seems like theres probably an easier method then tracking down gasoline and sawdust. 

Evaporust is very popular and it's pretty good on the right stuff. IT does remove rust and it's totally non toxic and safe for metal. I ended up having to dunk them in it a couple times as they would literally rust in minutes before i could even dry them or oil them. I then wiped them down with wd40 and all seems to be well.

Even did my first stake tool repair. Fixed the sloppy rotor to the vintage seiko i just repaired. 
There's something sorta amazing about working on an old watchmakers probably 100 year old tool that he clearly took great care of.

Edited April 10, 2023 by Birbdad

[Knebo]

Hello everyone,

I'm trembling as I write this because I feel a bit silly for my ignorance -- please be kind to an (almost) new member 

I've looked through the forum to my best ability. Also through youtube etc, but just am not sure:

Can the classic Seitz tool (as in below picture) also be used for some basic staking (primarily to reduce the size of brass barrel arbor holes in bridge/mainplate)?.

Thanks and best regards, CK

 

[LittleWatchShop]

24 minutes ago, Knebo said:

Can the classic Seitz tool (as in below picture) also be used for some basic staking (primarily to reduce the size of brass barrel arbor holes in bridge/mainplate)?.

I would not use mine that way.  I doubt the pushers were designed to to be pounded as a stake is pounded.  You need a classic staking set.

[pent]

So on this topic....

I have had a Berg 5285D set on order since December (supply chain issues, blah blah).  I just recently found out Berg is cheaping out and switching to a hard plastic case instead of wood.  Disappointing, but not the end of the world, the set itself will still be excellent.

However, I just came across a used K&D inverto set with 36 more punches and 5 more stakes.  It's used of course and although every space in the box is full, I have no idea if it is complete.  Looks like it is and seems to be in very good vintage shape.  Buying it would save me about $350.  Should I chance it and hopefully not regret it or should I stick with the brand new Berg that is about 1-2 months out before I receive it?  Just wondering what other watchmakers would do in this situation.

I have a few projects that need a staking set, but nothing critical or time sensitive, so another 2 months of waiting won't change anything for me.  Appreciate the opinions!