Watch not ticking after assembly and oiling

[dieale2]

I am pretty new at this and I decided to repair a vintage 1920s Elgin. I got it off from Goodwill and it couldn't be wound. Several people serviced the watch before me as seen in all the screwdriver marks.I found it was very dirty and there were brass shaving in my cleaning solution. I looked like something want installed right and it grinded the plates.

 

Anyway, when I installed and oil the train wheels, they ran freely. I installed and oiled the pallet fork and manually checked the locking. The pallet fork would lock as intended. The winding mechanism works good and I wound it until I couldn't move the crown.

 

When I installed the balance cock, the wheel would spin freely but wouldn't sustain itself. I could move the wheel manually and it would slowly lose energy and stop even though the watch was fully wound. The endshake is good from what I could tell. The balance is slightly move up and down.

 

I found another thread here suggesting the cannon pinon was stopping the movement. I removed the cannon pinon and the problem was the same.

 

I looked at the pivots of the train and balance staff and they looked fine to me.

 

I didn't replace the mainspring but it looks like it's holding power just fine.

 

Not really sure what to do, any help would be great. I could upload pictures tomorrow if needed.

 

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[wolfwatchwerks]

Hi I'm new here as well, I've been practicing this for about 3 1/2 years. I don't claim to be an expert by any stretch but have encountered this problem a few times. There could be a few things that you might want to check. You shouldn't have very much end shake at all. If it's more than 0.5mm that to me, is excessive. If you can literally "see" end shake this is not correct. Check that all jewels are present and not missing, check to see the balance cock is not bent. If all that checks good. Replace the balance staff. Reinstall the BW and make sure the table jewel is in beat. *I would also add, make sure the table jewel is there*. (resting between the fork levers so that the fork is centered between the pallet stop pins) with the regulator set to zero. Make sure that the hairspring is in between the curb pins properly with at least 0.1mm gap between the outside pin, and all coils are free of obstruction. If any coils are touching your spring may be out of alignment. Open the MS barrel and check it if you haven't already. Make sure its clean, not kinked  and in good order. Try a few of those things to see if it may help. I'm sure there will be some other members on here with much more knowledge than me to add to what I have offered. Good luck, keep us posted. 

[jdm]

3 hours ago, wolfwatchwerks said:

Hi I'm new here as well, I've been practicing this for about 3 1/2 years. 

Welcome to the forum. If you wish, you can use the dedicated section to introduce yourself in more detail.

[jguitron]

Good morning. My suggestion is to power down completely and to remove the balance wheel and pallet fork. Now turn the barrel slowly and if you truly don’t have issues with the train wheel the escape wheel should start spinning rapidly. It shouldn’t take more than half a barrel turn. Caution as too much power can damage the wheels badly.

 

If it doesn’t turn, then you have to find what’s wrong on this side of the movement. If it does spin freely than it’s either the pallet fork or the balance wheel.

 

Good luck and keep us posted [emoji1303]

 

 

 

 

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[MrRoundel]

I believe that the brass bushings (rather than jewels) get worn faster/easier than jeweled bushings. Once they get to a certain point they probably allow the pinion of the respective wheel to move too far from a good mesh with the adjacent wheel. You might check the side-shake at the pivots to see how worn they are. It may be that 7-jewel watches sound like a great idea to get experience on, but because of the easier wearing of the bushings, they may present more difficulties than a newbie can handle. I'm just thinking out loud here. And I believe that I have read on the NAWCC MB about it being somewhat inadvisable to work on 7J watches to start, due to the bushings wearing. 

Maybe a 15J would be better, and without driving the price up too much? With the pocket watch market being pretty soft, now is a good time to pick up a few to work on. Best of luck.

[dieale2]

8 hours ago, jguitron said:

Good morning. My suggestion is to power down completely and to remove the balance wheel and pallet fork. Now turn the barrel slowly and if you truly don’t have issues with the train wheel the escape wheel should start spinning rapidly. It shouldn’t take more than half a barrel turn. Caution as too much power can damage the wheels badly.

 

If it doesn’t turn, then you have to find what’s wrong on this side of the movement. If it does spin freely than it’s either the pallet fork or the balance wheel.

 

Good luck and keep us posted

 

 

 

 

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I removed the pallet fork and balance wheel and saw that none of the train wheels were running on full power. I loosed the barrel bridge and suddenly the power was released. It looks like when I screw down the bridge, it jams the barrel somehow and stops the power. After loosing the bridge screws, it started to tick.

It looks like the amplitude is pretty low after setting the adjustment lever to something more reasonable. The hairspring seems a bit out of wack.

Looking up the serial number, the production date was 1930 and grade 487. It's a really beautiful vintage movement. I hope to collect more of these vintage Elgin wristwatches. It doesn't look like many people care about them since the price is pretty low.

Edited December 26, 2017 by dieale2
Looked up serial number

[jguitron]

Nice! You’re on to something. Sometimes opening the barrel to clean the mainspring will change the endshake so that when you put it back on he bridge it’s caught.

I bet that the arbor has a good endshake but the actual barrel rubs on the bridge.

I suggest you remove the barrel and look at the arbor shake within it and then look at the lid of the barrel to see if it’s bent outwards.

Cheers!


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[jdm]

39 minutes ago, dieale2 said:

It looks like the amplitude is pretty low after setting the adjustment lever to something more reasonable. The hairspring seems a bit out of wack.

The hi res pic shows that the HS is seriously distorted, I don't think you can get good results with it. 

[dieale2]

20 minutes ago, jdm said:

The hi res pic shows that the HS is seriously distorted, I don't think you can get good results with it. 

It doesn't get any pretty when you get close. I guess being 80+ years old does a number on you.

[dieale2]

I took a picture of the hairspring. I am not sure how much was me or the last person...

The hairspring bent when I used the adjuster lever. I am not sure why it caught on the pins.

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[MrRoundel]

Sorry, my mistake. I thought that I'd read it was a 7 jewel movement. It obviously is not.

If it's a 4/0 movement, that's fairly small to be worked on as a beginner. My hat's off to you for getting into something that small pretty early on in your watch repairing life. It looks like you're getting the hang of it like a natural. Good luck with it. Cheers.

 

 

[rodabod]

11 hours ago, dieale2 said:

I took a picture of the hairspring. I am not sure how much was me or the last person...

The hairspring bent when I used the adjuster lever. I am not sure why it caught on the pins.

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That doesn’t look terrible. I’d follow the usual procedure of mounting on the balance clock, placing the brequet overcoil within the curb pins and see if it looks like the collet is centred on the jewel hole. Check the curb pins are not grabbing the hairspring. They should be set just wider to be snug, say 1.5x the hairspring thickness. Apologies if you know all of this already. 

[dieale2]

That doesn’t look terrible. I’d follow the usual procedure of mounting on the balance clock, placing the brequet overcoil within the curb pins and see if it looks like the collet is centred on the jewel hole. Check the curb pins are not grabbing the hairspring. They should be set just wider to be snug, say 1.5x the hairspring thickness. Apologies if you know all of this already. 

I certainly didn't. I will always appreciate you guy's advice. 

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