Adjusting a broken Hairspring

[jdrichard]

Have an old H. E. Peck pocket watch and while adjusting the hairspring, I broke it right at the regulator. So I re-pinned the new end and installed it. It was running with poor amplitude, so i tweeked it to get the hairspring colet over the upper Balance jewel. This worked really well and now i have a swing around 400 degrees (same arm range). However, the watch now runs fast. So what would you recommend i do next: add washers or something else.

 

 

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[Chopin]

Isn't the reason why it's running fast because the hair spring is now shorter ?

Can't you just get a new hair spring ? CousinsUK has them cheap. Maybe they have yours as well...

[matabog]

Washers is the answer. I know you're a tinkerer so I wouldn't advise you to buy a new one. What would be the fun in that, anyway?!

Good luck!

Edited November 23, 2017 by matabog

[matabog]

http://adjustingvintagewatches.com

 

For poising

[matabog]

Also, did you brake it at the regulator or at the stud? Not that would make any much difference

[Chopin]

Can someone offer more on these washers you guys speak of ? Just out of curiosity.

[clockboy]

400° is way to much. One thing it can cause is over banking. Check the end shake of the balance & I presume it is the original hairspring if not is it too short.

[matabog]

those 400 degrees are the total arc. I think he means 200degrees.

about the weashers - input "watch timing washers" on google

 

[jdrichard]

Also, did you brake it at the regulator or at the stud? Not that would make any much difference [emoji4]

Broke it at the regulator so it is now shorter and loosing about 1/2 minute per hour

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[jdrichard]

400° is way to much. One thing it can cause is over banking. Check the end shake of the balance & I presume it is the original hairspring if not is it too short.

Metabo is correct, amplitude is 200, total swing is 400. I use slo-mo on my iPhone to note the amplitude.

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[jdrichard]

Also, did you brake it at the regulator or at the stud? Not that would make any much difference [emoji4]

Broke it at the regulator. It was running fine, but there was a kink in the spring right about where the regulator was set to Fast, so I would not be able to slow it down. I tried to straighten out the kink without disassembling the spring and paid the price. So in all my wisdom I just used the remaining spring , which was about 98% of the total length. I adjusted it perfectly but due to its new length, it is running way to slow. I was not sure if cousins would have a spring for a 1890 pocket watch and with the right collet size.....so "slow that baby down". I was even thinking of ways I could fart with the hairspring material consistency but I'd rather not screw it up more. It is running so well now mechanically. I already fixed the cap jewel by finding a replacement one in one of my 50 Russian practice watches....the old one and its setting were mangled.

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[jdrichard]

http://adjustingvintagewatches.com
 
For poising

Great site, thanks

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[clockboy]

Making a hairspring shorter should make the watch run faster not slower. 

[szbalogh]

There are multiple options. The best is to replace the HS.

You can also repin the HS if there was some excess left and stick with regulator way off from middle position. 

One can also turn ot the balance screws to increase inertia, but the options here are limited. 

Adding more weight to the balance should also work. You can do this by adding washers as mentioned above or by adding bigger screws. Manipulate the opposite pairs at a time and pise the balance if you got the right weight!

 

[JohnR725]

After re-pinning the hairspring did you remember to put the watch in beat?

Then hairsprings are not considered normal replaceable component. True in American pocket watch material catalogs they show hairsprings but you also have timing screws which are going to need.

I was going to recommend timing screws but looking at your balance wheel doesn't look like you have any additional holes? If you had an assortment a scrap balance wheels you might Be able to find the right size timing screws to put in. Then timing washers normally the slowest you can go per pair is three minutes per day and you need 12 minutes worth.

[jdrichard]

Making a hairspring shorter should make the watch run faster not slower. 

It is running too fast.


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[jdrichard]

After re-pinning the hairspring did you remember to put the watch in beat?
Then hairsprings are not considered normal replaceable component. True in American pocket watch material catalogs they show hairsprings but you also have timing screws which are going to need.
I was going to recommend timing screws but looking at your balance wheel doesn't look like you have any additional holes? If you had an assortment a scrap balance wheels you might Be able to find the right size timing screws to put in. Then timing washers normally the slowest you can go per pair is three minutes per day and you need 12 minutes worth.

I think i could get 300 seconds by adding timing screws. And perhaps backing off the existing screws ad well to get the 12 minutes. I put the watch in beat when i reinstalled and adjusted the remainder of the hairspring. Timing screw sizes may be hard to find for this Peck pocket watch. I’ll need to see if there are any spare holes.


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[jdrichard]

Does anyone know where one can purchase a replacement hairspring for a Henery Peck pocket watch. Cousins has no pocket watch hairsprings that i can find


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[szbalogh]

On 2017. 11. 24. at 3:01 AM, jdrichard said:

Does anyone know where one can purchase a replacement hairspring for a Henery Peck pocket watch. Cousins has no pocket watch hairsprings that i can find


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This is a simple hairspring (no overcoil), i think a similar one will do. You have to determine the pinning point by comparing to a same bph watch, preferably using a Luthy tool. 

No need to search for the brand. 

[jdrichard]

This is a simple hairspring (no overcoil), i think a similar one will do. You have to determine the pinning point by comparing to a same bph watch, preferably using a Luthy tool. 
No need to search for the brand. 

What about the colet size? So if i get a standard hairspring, it needs to be an 18000 bph and i can reattach te colet?


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[StuartBaker104]

Fitting up a new hairspring... if you can find one... will probably send you round the bend.

Something about this doesn’t seem quite right to me. If the spring truly broke at the stud, not by the regulator, then repinning it shouldn’t make so much difference that you couldn't regulate it even if the regulator is then at the end of its travel.

It looks to me from the picture that the outer coils are quite close together and that the end of the spring isn’t shaped correctly to allow it to pass between the regulator pin and boot without shifting the outer coil. Are you sure that the coils aren’t touching at all when the regulator is set to the slow end?

I’m sure Mark has a video somewhere showing how to set up a final coil. He does this by fitting just the hairspring to the cock and moving the regulator between extremes to ensure the collet stays centred over the jewel hole.

[jdrichard]

Fitting up a new hairspring... if you can find one... will probably send you round the bend.
Something about this doesn’t seem quite right to me. If the spring truly broke at the stud, not by the regulator, then repinning it shouldn’t make so much difference that you couldn't regulate it even if the regulator is then at the end of its travel.
It looks to me from the picture that the outer coils are quite close together and that the end of the spring isn’t shaped correctly to allow it to pass between the regulator pin and boot without shifting the outer coil. Are you sure that the coils aren’t touching at all when the regulator is set to the slow end?
I’m sure Mark has a video somewhere showing how to set up a final coil. He does this by fitting just the hairspring to the cock and moving the regulator between extremes to ensure the collet stays centred over the jewel hole.

It broke out by the regulator so i lost some spring length. I shaped it and the amplitude is great, just too short and thus too fast.


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[JohnR725]

Possibly an unhelpful suggestion there is another way to get the watch to run without replacing the hairspring and being reasonably close on time perhaps. So remove the regulator arm and convert this to a free sprung balance. You'll still be a little fast depending upon how much hairspring you stuck into the stud when you pinned it. Then I noticed that there are two mean time screws on the balance wheel you could regulate with those your If you are close enough.

 

[digginstony]

I think the practical way forward is to weight the balance wheel. A word of caution, those weight screws once backed off have a nasty habit of working loose. On better quality b/ wheels have regulating screws which are found on the wheel over the b/ wheel arms. So if there are no further provisions on the wheel to add screws I suggest you start there.
Drill two holes opposite each other over the arms and add screws. If possible "Tap" if not glue. Working over the arms will give a better chance of keeping alignment of the added screws and aid poising.
Also adding washers is good if you can find them. I don't know a supplier but sometimes old stock turn up on flea bay.

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[jdrichard]

Possibly an unhelpful suggestion there is another way to get the watch to run without replacing the hairspring and being reasonably close on time perhaps. So remove the regulator arm and convert this to a free sprung balance. You'll still be a little fast depending upon how much hairspring you stuck into the stud when you pinned it. Then I noticed that there are two mean time screws on the balance wheel you could regulate with those your If you are close enough.
 

That is a super drastic move. I could try removing the regulator arm and seeing how close the timing is. The big problem is having to take the balance cock off for each small adjustment. I have seen a whole lot of imagination in this group. “There out there Gerry and their LOVEN it” Free sprung balance.


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